Hi community.

I have recently purchased a PLG150-DX board which I unsuccesfully have been trying to dump various soundbanks to from MIDI-OX. The last 3 days I have been searching the forums for any hints, but so far nothing seems to work.

My setup is a Motif7 with a PLG150-AN as plugin card 1 and PLG150-DX as plugin card 2. In the near future I hope to add a PLG100-VH, so I believe the PLG150-DX must be mounted as plugin card 2 or 3.

I am using a USB-cable to connect the Motif7 to a PC. The Motif7 is set up with the following parameters:

BasicRcvCh omni
KBDTransCh 1
DeviceNo. 1
FileUtilID 1
BankSel on
PgmChange on
CtrlChange mode1
LocalCtrl on
RcvBulk on
MIDI Sync internal
ClockOut off
SeqCtrl in
MTC StartOffset 00:00:00:00
MIDI IN/OUT USB
ThruPort 1

Plug1 PLG150-AN
Plug2 PLG150-DX
Plug3
PolyExpand off

Devno. Portno. GM/XG
Plug1 all off
Plug2 all off
Plug3 all off ***

Native2
BulkBlock 33-64
VelCurve DX7

I put the Motif7 in Voice mode, selecting PLG2, bank 35/000, Voice then I load a .sys soundbank to MIDI-OX and send it to the PLG150-DX by using the Send Sysex command, but apparently nothing happens. As I am able to load, edit and save sound(banks) when using the DX simulator, I suspect the problem could have something to do with the setup or use of MIDI-OX.

The MIDI-OX is defined with the following MIDI devices:

MIDI Inputs: YAMAHA USB IN 0-1
MIDI Outputs: YAMAHA USB OUT 0-1
Port Mapping: YAMAHA USB OUT 0-1
YAMAHA USB IN 0-1
MIDI-OX Events

No other MIDI equipment is connected to the PC or Motif7 and no other MIDI programs are running when using the MIDI-OX.

When I am using the DX simulator I am also communicating with the Motif7 via ports
MIDI In YAMAHA USB IN 0-1
MIDI Out YAMAHA USB OUT 0-1
MIDICH 1
Part No. 1
Device No. 1
Board No. 1
Output when edited on

I am unsure if my MIDI-OX/Motif7 configuration is correct, especially I can find no sufficient explanation of the Motif parameters Devno and Portno. for the plugin cards. Should the PLG150-DX/Motif be assigned specific Device and Port numbers?

In the Motif manual there is no description of the native plugin parameters, only a reference to the native plugin documentation. I am unable to find any description of these parameters in the PLG150-DX manual, presumably because the Motif was not available when the PLG150-DX manual was written.

What is the meaning of the native parameter BulkBlock values DX7 and FSP1?

I must also state that I once have been able to dump a soundbank from MIDI-OX to the PLG150-DX. But it took some time until I discovered it so I did not notice the exact procedure I was executing. However it proves it is possible to do it!


Another odd thing I discovered is that sometimes when selecting banks on the PLG150-DX, then after incrementing/decrementing one step the menu automatically returns to Play mode, a bit annoying if you had to scroll by several banks. The only way I know of to avoid this behaviour is to power off/on the Motif7. Is the any other way to change this?


I hope I express myself clearly and that somebody is able to explain what to do to dump .sys soundbanks from MIDI-OX to PLG150-DX/Motif7.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards
Ib-Michael

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

Hmmmm.....
I don’t get it. After being unable to download soundbanks to th Motif/PLG150--DX for several days, now I can suddenly download many soundbanks, but not all. Maybe the soundbanks are the problem?

However I would still like an explanation to the native midi parameters, if anybody can come up with one, and to the question regarding device and port number assignment.

(Also, the soundbank files mentioned in my original post are of course .syx files).

The good thing is that I am now able to load my old DX7 sounds to my PLG150-DX, so I am happy for now.

/Ib-Michael

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

Native2
BulkBlock 33-64
VelCurve DX7

I put the Motif7 in Voice mode, selecting PLG2, bank 35/000, Voice then I load a .sys soundbank to MIDI-OX and send it to the PLG150-DX by using the Send Sysex command, but apparently nothing happens. As I am able to load, edit and save sound(banks) when using the DX simulator, I suspect the problem could have something to do with the setup or use of MIDI-OX.

The NATIVE parameters for the DX board involve the target for the load. The PLG boards are passive devices - the only way you may be able to determine if the data actually loaded is to go to the 035/000 bank and check the target location.

The original DX had only 32 Voice locations in a bank of sounds. So you can target locations in bank 035/000 either 1-32 or 33-64.

ONe trick is that after a bulk is received (there is no indication from the PLG board) you will have to call up the first target location - change the Voice. That is move away and recall it. This will refresh the screen. You may in fact have been loading different banks but seemingly nothing changes until you move away and return… recalling the target location.

I have found it best to name the banks by the sound that is first.... there are so many DX banks out there - remember they all have just 32 sounds which you must target to 1-32, then take a second bank and target 33-64.... And then you must check to make sure by physically recalling location 1 or location 33 to see if it changed.

Once you have these two banks in your 035/000 make a backup of them 64 at a time in a “PluginAllBulk2” file. (.W2B/.W3B)
You can load these back to any slot using the appropriate “PluginAllBulkbx” file type… where x can be 1, 2 or 3 for the three slots.

And with so many banks out there and with so many different authors you will find that some are simply not going to work… but hopefully the tip of recalling the voice will help.

The VELOCITY CURVE = DX7 means that the sounds will respond as the DX7 did.. The DX7 keyboard physically had a curve that made it extremely difficult to get to 127 - because the more energy you put into playing FM sounds the more harmonics they output and the more brittle and thinner the sound got. When people would play the DX tone engine from external 88 note-weighted controllers they would complain that the sound got thin… when in fact if you played lighter the sound would be fat… In general, you needed to adjust the velocity curve of your controller so that it was at a “HARD” setting… meaning it would take a greater effort to get maximum output.

The DX7 setting for Velocity Curve here will give you the same result as if you changed the velocity curve of your controller… it filters the velocity coming in so that it mimics the proper velocity for the FM sounds (and this is cool because you do not have to change your keyboard’s overall curve to make this happen), It make it as if you were playing them from the original DX7 keybed… by taliloring the response of the PLG150-DX.

The DX7 and the TX816 got a reputation (wrongly) for being “thin"… but only by those who never discovered that they were extremely velocity sensitive… (alas)!

And by the way, when and if you get a VH board, it will need to go in Slot 1 (the VH board must be in slot 1 because it needs access to the A/D INPUT which is hardwired to slot 1). 

The other NATIVE parameters for the DX board deal with OFFSETs to the OUTPUT index of the Carrier and Modulators, and to the Feedback output for operator that has the feedback loop.

In general, Carriers are the operators that are heard in an FM stack, while Modulators affect the timbre of the carrier. So by adding or subtracting values to these native parameters you can tweak how the Voice sounds. If asterisks appear next to a parameter it simply means that it is not present in this particular Voice.

you will notice there are six Carriers and six Modulators - in an actual FM algorithm there are only six operators total so some are Carriers (at least 1 has to be) and others are Modulators… with a total of six operators. Increasing the Output of a Modulator will brighten the sound, decreasing it will darken the harmonic content

The Portamento Mode (native) parameter is either Follow/Fulltime or Retain/Finger…

For full explanations of these please see page 30 of the PLG150-DX Owner’s Manual

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

Hi Bad Mister.

Thank you for the detailed reply. It shed some some light over the subject and then none :-(

The fact is that one day I can load some banks, the next day I can not load them, so I must be doing something wrong somewhere.

With my current setup right now I am able to bulkdump a soundbank from MIDI-OX to the Motif7 sequencer. I can resend the soundbank from the sequencer to MIDI-OX and verify that the received bank is identical to the transmitted bank, but when going back to Motif mode VOICE-PLG2 I cannot send the soundbank to PLG150-DX bank 35/000, neither to voice location 1-32 nor 33-64.

I am wondering if this has something to do with the UTILITY-PLUG-MIDI setup? At the moment PLUG2 is set to device no=all and port no=off. The Motif7 UTILITY-MIDI-CH-DeviceNo=1, the BasicRcvCh=omni and RcvBulk=on.

The MIDI-OX is sending and receiving data via
YAMAHA USB IN 0-1
YAMAHA USB OUT 0-1

What I fail to understand is the connection of DeviceNo and PortNo between the MIDI-OX and the Motif7. As a matter of fact I am not able to find anywhere in MIDI-OX where I can specify Device and port numbers.

I guess the Device number is irrelevant when the Motif7 UTILITY-PLUG-MIDI-PLUG2-DEVNO=all, but when PORTNO=off will the PLG150-DX then receive anything?

(It almost seems like I have forgotten to disable some sort of memory protection :-)

If I send a note-on message from MIDI-OX (e.g. 90EC7F) to the Motif7, then the PLG150-DX reacts with a sound, no matter which value of PORTNO (off, 1, 2, 3) is selected. So the PLG150-DX is able to receive messages like note-on’s, but sometimes not SysEx dumps.

I also assume it doesn’t matter if you are in the VOICE-PLG2-PLAY, VOICE-PLG2-BANK or VOICE-PLG-A/B/C/D mode when receiving a SysEx dump just as long as you have selected bank 35/000, but I am not sure. Does it matter?

And what are UTILITY-PLUG-NATIVE2-BulkBlock values DX7 and FSP1 indicating? These values are not explained anywhere as far as I can see.

By the way, no need to dwell on the internal PLG150-DX/DX7 parameters except those concerning SysEx dumps. I have been the proud owner of a DX7 since 1983 and have a pretty good understanding of it.

Thank you for your patience.
Ib-Michael

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

What I fail to understand is the connection of DeviceNo and PortNo between the MIDI-OX and the Motif7. As a matter of fact I am not able to find anywhere in MIDI-OX where I can specify Device and port numbers.

The Device No. is only of significance if you have two or more of the same product. You could set them so that one of them receives the data while the other one ignores it. Leave the Device number set to “all”. It does not concern you in this at all.

The PORT number has to do with how you are communicating with the PLG boards. If you are in VOICE mode (and we assume you are) then the PORT number does not matter at all. When in VOICE mode the entire Motif is considered port 1 - your Yamaha USB 0-1 setting is addressing PORT 1.

If you were in SONG mode or PATTERN mode and attempting to communicate with the PLG150 board, you could place your PLG150s on PORT 2, for example, this would effectively give you three additional MIDI channels.... PORT 1, 1-16 for your internal Motif sounds, and PORT 2, 1-3 for your PLG150 boards.

But if you are in VOICE mode then the PORT setting for your PLG150 boards will be ignored and dealt with as if they were an internal Motif sound.

The only setting you have that I find troubling is the Basic Receive channel = OMNI… there is really no practical reason to have this setting… Set it to 1

As to “FSP1” I have no idea what you are referring to here… please tell me where you see that parameter????

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

So am I correct in assuming that Yamaha USB 0-1 is communicating with port 1, Yamaha USB 0-2 is communicating with port 2 and Yamaha USB 0-3 is communicating with port 3 when in song or pattern mode?

I am using BasicRcvCh=omni because it is more convenient when dumping midi files from Cubase 4 to Motif. At your recommendation I have changed it to 1. It does not make any difference.

The FSP1 is not a parameter, but a parameter value. Go to UTILITY-PLUG-NATIVEx, where x is the number of the PLG150-DX plugin board, select parameter BulkBlock and scroll past value 33-64, then you will find values DX7 and FSP1 which are not documented as far as I can see.

Anyway the last few days I have been completely unable to transfer any sounds to the PLG150-DX board. To simplify things I have removed my PLG150-AN and put the PLG150-DX as plugin card 1.

For the time being I am only working with the DX Simulator. I can bulk dump a sound bank from the DX Simulator to the Motif sequencer but not to the PLG150-DX. I can select, play and edit sounds in the DX Simulator and hear the changes of the voice selections and edits done in the DX Simulator, but I can not transfer the sound banks to the PLG150-DX. My Cubase 4 sequences also plays correctly on the Motif. To me this indicates that either the PLG150-DX is defective or I am doing something fundamentally wrong, it is probably the last :-)

To recap my settings:

DX Simulator
MIDI In YAMAHA USB IN 0-1
MIDI Out YAMAHA USB OUT 0-1
MIDI CH 1
Part No. 1
Device No. 1
Board No. 1
Output when edited MARKED

I am unsure about the Board No. parameter. It is not documented in th DX Simulator manual. Is this parameter relevant for the Motif?

Motif7
MIDI parameters
BasicRcvCh 1
KBDTransCh 1
DeviceNo 1
FileUtilID 1
BankSel on
PgmChange on
CtrlChange mode1
LocalCtrl on
RcvBulk on
MIDI IN/OUT USB
ThruPort 1

PLUG parameters
Plug1 PLG150-DX
Plug2
Plug3
PolyExpand off
Plug1 all off
Plug2 all off
Plug3 all off ***
BulkBlock 33-64
VelCurve DX7

The Motif is in VOICE-PLAY mode. Before selecting this mode I have selected VOICE-BANK 035/000.

I fail to see what I am doing wrong but I am getting more frustrated every day :-)

Kind regards
Ib-Michael

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

I can bulk dump a sound bank from the DX Simulator to the Motif sequencer but not to the PLG150-DX. I can select, play and edit sounds in the DX Simulator and hear the changes of the voice selections and edits done in the DX Simulator, but I can not transfer the sound banks to the PLG150-DX. My Cubase 4 sequences also plays correctly on the Motif. To me this indicates that either the PLG150-DX is defective or I am doing something fundamentally wrong, it is probably the last :-)

Another option is that the data you are attempting to bulk is faulty. With the literally thousands of DX sound banks out there… how you are you certain this this bank is good? The file itself could be faulty
What is the size of the file?

Re: How do I dump .sys soundbanks to PLG150-DX?

Hi Bad Mister.
That was a quick reply. I really appreciate that! You are correct that several banks are faulty and I can not be sure that some of the banks I try to transmit are ok.

But the banks I am trying to transmit are all 4104 bytes in size and they validates ok in the MIDI-OX SysEx-Command Window-Check Data function. The odd thing is that some days I am able to transmit certain banks and the next day (or after next PC reboot or Motif power on) the same banks will not transmit.

At the momemt I am once again able to transmit banks. In all my previous test I had only started the DX Simulator or the MIDI-OX application, but this time I first started Cubase 4 and then MIDI-OX and now all banks tried so far transmit correctly, even when Cubase 4 is closed. I suspect it may has something to to with my software setup but I have not found an explanation yet. I guess I will have to keep on digging.

(I sure hope all things work again after next power on :-)