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Viewing topic "Using a MIXING program…."

     
Posted on: November 11, 2013 @ 09:55 PM
MeMyselfAndI64
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Hi I have ordered an MOFX6 (arrives today or tomorrow:)
I have read the manual a bit. but one thing eludes me....

Can I use Mixing Programs on external hardware?
IE being able to change midi channels via the buttons?

Thanks

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 12:08 AM
Bad_Mister
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Can I use Mixing Programs on external hardware?
IE being able to change midi channels via the buttons?

The question is not very clear. Can you use MOXF Mixing programs *on* external hardware??? ON is a curious word here. Sorry.

You can certainly change MIDI channels via the MOXF buttons but I’m not sure what you are asking about external hardware - the only hardware you mention is the MOXF.

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 01:44 AM
MeMyselfAndI64
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Bad_Mister - 12 November 2013 12:08 AM

Can I use Mixing Programs on external hardware?
IE being able to change midi channels via the buttons?

The question is not very clear. Can you use MOXF Mixing programs *on* external hardware??? ON is a curious word here. Sorry.

You can certainly change MIDI channels via the MOXF buttons but I’m not sure what you are asking about external hardware - the only hardware you mention is the MOXF.

Sorry I have an Integra 7 since it is 16 channels (Parts)!

I was wondering if the MOFX channel buttons in Mixing Mode,
also change the MIDI out channel and not just internally on the MOXF.

I want to be able to play the Integra 7 and easy change the out channel on the MOXF to change the instrument that I have set up on the 16 midi channels on the Integra7

Hope that clears what I want to do.......
English is not my native languish:)

Thanks!

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 02:53 AM
anotherscott
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Yes, that will work, by enabling the TRACK button.

There is no way to send Program Changes to external gear from Song/Mix mode, though. You need Master Mode for that. Within Master mode, if I understand correctly, you could set it up do that you can turn 4 of your external channels on and off using the buttons, but not all 16.

In effect (and someone correct me if I’m wrong), Master Mode has a function that lets you use buttons to switch among 4 internal sounds and 4 external sounds independently. Mix mode lets you switch among 16 combinations of internal and external sounds… that is, when you hit a button, it turns on the internal sound assigned to that part, and also starts transmitting on that MIDI channel, so you will normally hear a pair of sounds, the internal stacked with the external.

(It can actually get a little more complicated, in that you can assign internal parts in such a way that they don’t match the buttons… i.e. button 1 could enable the internal sounds assigned to part 1 and part 3 while button 3 enables no internal sound at all, while button 1 continues to trigger channel 1 on your external device and button 3 continues to trigger channel 3, but let’s leave that permutation aside for now, and assume a straight-forward set of 16 voices on 16 parts each on its own channel, matching the 16 external channel activations, all selected with the 16 buttons.)

In this case, if you want some of the buttons to trigger only an internal sound and others only an external sound, you would have to have a “silent” patch assigned to one of your devices on a given channel/part so that you would hear one device’s sound and not the other when you enabled that track. It’s easy enough to assign internal sounds (including silent ones) to various parts in a MIX, but as I said, you can’t assign external sounds to channels, the mode doesn’t send out Program Change. Once you enable a channel, the external piece will just play whatever sound was last assigned to that channel. So if you want such a channel to be silent on your external device so you can hear the Yamaha voice alone, you need to assign it to a silent patch ahead of time.

I believe your Integra has a way to receive a single “Registration” Program Change that will assign 16 sounds to its 16 channels. So I would create an Integra Registration that had the 16 sounds you want (one on each channel), including probably some “silent” ones so you could use those track buttons to call up the Yamaha’s own sounds by themselves when desired, assuming you do want to mix-and-match. I would create a Master that sent the Program Change to call up that Registration. Then you should be able to invoke that Master to set the Integra the way you want, and then switch to Mix mode and choose freely from among those 16 sounds as you like. By appropriate placement of “silent” patches both within the Integra Registration and on various internal Parts, the 16 buttons could be used to seamlessly switch among whatever combination you like of 16 Yamaha and Roland sounds (or layer the two, by making neither instrument silent on a given part/channel).

(If you had something other than an Integra, that perhaps did not include a way to send a single Program Change that would call up sound assignments to all 16 of the device’s channels, you’d probably have to use up 4 Masters to get those 16 Program Change messages sent, or call up the desired sounds some other way, i.e. on the unit itself.)

Note that internal Parts in a Mix can be configured to play only over a specified key range, but when you enable a track, that channel is enabled to the external device over the full keyspan (unlike within a Master, where you can specify only a particular key range to be transmitted over a particular MIDI channel).

Anyway, thanks for posting, you’ve given me some ideas to play with myself! Which is why I went on a little beyond what you asked. ;-)

This is largely theory. I haven’t done much of this. So if I have something wrong here, someone, please chime in!

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 04:51 AM
MeMyselfAndI64
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Thanks for your detailed answer:)
As it is right now I just want to be able to change sounds (via MIDI Channel change) in an easy way!

I can do splits etc within the Integra7 Studio Sets (16 Channels) and load em manually.so it does not matter if the MOXF sends the whole keyrange.

Now if they would/Could deliver my MOXF.
I would be all over this....:) But I guess I have to wait.

For now I just think about how I want it all to work and if that is even possible:)

Thanks again.

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 05:15 AM
Bad_Mister
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Between the two products you will be able to optimize your setup for what you need to do. Most modules have a way to recall their own multi-timbral setups, so you would need only send one BANK SELECT/PROGRAM CHANGE message to have the external module recall all of its sounds.

If at some point during a playing session you wish to change an individual PART of your external device you can send a BANK SELECT/PROGRAM CHANGE to that device.

One correction to the above, you can, of course, send BANK SELECT and PROGRAM CHANGE information from the MOXF Sequencer (SONG/PATTERN mode).

MASTER mode does allow you to do everything you have stated you want to do. You would dedicate one ZONE to recall your internal MOXF program and the other ZONE to send the appropriate message to your external module. And you can independently activate and deactivate control of them.

As far as simply controlling or changing transmit channel on the fly, this can be handled in the MOXF:
VOICE mode - Press the [TRACK] button, now buttons [1]-[16] represent transmit OUT via MIDI channels
PERFORMANCE mode - Press the [TRACK] button, now buttons [1]-[16] represent transmit OUT via MIDI channels

While in SONG/PATTERN mode, with the [TRACK] button lit, you are transmitting OUT on the MIDI channel that the Track is set to transmit on.

What is happening internally at the time is determined by you. You can manipulate the MODES so that you transmit OUT via MIDI when you need to and you can transmit internally when you need to and you can transmit to both when you you need to. You just have to know how the rules of each mode apply and when they apply.

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Posted on: November 12, 2013 @ 09:36 AM
anotherscott
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Thanks for some good add’l info there, B_M!

So the Track button works in Song, Performance and Master modes too. Cool! I had only played with that in Mix mode, and just hadn’t thought about using that function in other modes.

This opens up some other nice possibilities. I think I like this scenario: In Voice mode, create a set of 16 User Voices, leaving one of them silent; likewise assign 15 sounds on your external device to 15 of its channels, leaving one silent. Now, with the Track button unlit, you have instant access to 15 Yamaha sounds (and one silent location); and then by selecting Track, you now have instant access to 15 external sounds. That gives you very fast access to 15 internal sounds and 15 external sounds, with an easy way to layer any of the internal sounds with any of the external sounds at will (or play either one alone). This could be an advantage over using Mix mode, because you can change the internal and external parts independently. (In Mix mode, you can change the internal sound without changing the external by exiting Track mode, but you can’t change the external sound without changing the internal, at least as far as I saw. But I know that, with these keyboards, you should never say never!)

Good point about putting Program Changes in the Song itself (as opposed to in a Master as I had mentioned). I know you can put a Program Change event into a song, but I didn’t know how that would work in this scenario. I guess the idea is that, while calling up the Song itself can’t immediately send a Program Change (that I know of?), you can create a “Song” that consists of nothing but the desired Program Change. So then you would go to Song Mode, hit Play to send the Program Change, and then go change Tracks for live performance as you like. Yes?

Though I think I’m still missing something… where you say “If at some point during a playing session you wish to change an individual PART of your external device you can send a BANK SELECT/PROGRAM CHANGE to that device.” How? I mean, I know I could do it through a Master, but did you mean some other way? i.e. from within a Song/Mix?

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Posted on: November 25, 2013 @ 12:31 AM
MeMyselfAndI64
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anotherscott - 12 November 2013 09:36 AM

Thanks for some good add’l info there, B_M!

So the Track button works in Song, Performance and Master modes too. Cool! I had only played with that in Mix mode, and just hadn’t thought about using that function in other modes.

This opens up some other nice possibilities. I think I like this scenario: In Voice mode, create a set of 16 User Voices, leaving one of them silent; likewise assign 15 sounds on your external device to 15 of its channels, leaving one silent. Now, with the Track button unlit, you have instant access to 15 Yamaha sounds (and one silent location); and then by selecting Track, you now have instant access to 15 external sounds. That gives you very fast access to 15 internal sounds and 15 external sounds, with an easy way to layer any of the internal sounds with any of the external sounds at will (or play either one alone). This could be an advantage over using Mix mode, because you can change the internal and external parts independently. (In Mix mode, you can change the internal sound without changing the external by exiting Track mode, but you can’t change the external sound without changing the internal, at least as far as I saw. But I know that, with these keyboards, you should never say never!)

Good point about putting Program Changes in the Song itself (as opposed to in a Master as I had mentioned). I know you can put a Program Change event into a song, but I didn’t know how that would work in this scenario. I guess the idea is that, while calling up the Song itself can’t immediately send a Program Change (that I know of?), you can create a “Song” that consists of nothing but the desired Program Change. So then you would go to Song Mode, hit Play to send the Program Change, and then go change Tracks for live performance as you like. Yes?

Though I think I’m still missing something… where you say “If at some point during a playing session you wish to change an individual PART of your external device you can send a BANK SELECT/PROGRAM CHANGE to that device.” How? I mean, I know I could do it through a Master, but did you mean some other way? i.e. from within a Song/Mix?

Just wanted to say thanks to both of you. Some great tips and ideas.
Really like the 15 voices setup with one empty.
Removes some of the limitations when done in other ways.

Quick tip: I was using Channel 16 as an empty voice of my Integra!
but instead of an empty sound, I set it to receive on another
channel making an layered pad.
just to be able to actually use all 16 slots of voices:)

MOFX is Amazing as an Controller keyboard!

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