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Viewing topic "Relationship of ALLSONG to ALLPATTERN and saving SONG/PATTERN"

     
Posted on: March 02, 2021 @ 07:46 AM
muscarella
Total Posts:  525
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Guru

I’m wanting to use PATTERN mode on some Songs to allow me to either play the Song straight OR use Sections to expand or restructure the tune in real time, on the gig.

I’ve got a Song we’ll call “Out of Mind”. I’m editing it within an ALLSONG called “Out of Mind”. (I do all my work for a SONG in an ALLSONG file. I keep all the previous incarnations there.)

I’ve carefully gone through the Song, created Pattern Sections A-H and now I have a Pattern called “Out of Mind”. 

1st Q: When I Save the ALLSONG am I also saving the latest version of the Pattern?  When I save the ALL PATTERN am I also saving the latest version of the Song? 

Every time I work on either the Song or the Pattern version I use the Save function before I shutdown.

2nd Q: If I’ve made a change to the Song does my Pattern version (which has NOT changed since I created it) ride along in the ALLSONG file?

If I presume the answer is yes to both Q’s it follows that if I were to accidentally load the ALLPATTERN called “Out of Mind” I might think that the SONG in the last slot on that same file is the latest version of the SONG “Out of Mind”.

Obviously I try to avoid such a scenario. But the fluid nature of things—with Patterns and Songs sometimes married on one file, other times Saved or Loaded as single entities—makes them subject to mix-ups. And I’ve found Patterns tricky and sometimes baffling unto themselves. 

So now I’ve got a gig and I want to have both the SONG and the PATTERN available to me. If I Load the Song using SONG mode (that is, NOT ALLSONG) does the Pattern version of “Out of Mind” come along, too? I’m presuming the answer is NO.

It would be great to have them both available but the only way to do that is to load the “Out of Mind” ALLSONG file, which is too time and memory consuming during a gig.

So, what is the most sensible and most streamlined way for me to have both/either the Song version or the Pattern version at my fingertips? I like to use Master mode to categorize things, but am I now needing TWO Master slots for every tune I might play as a Song or as a Pattern? 

I do NOT use a computer during my live shows, so interfacing with something like the Melas suite is not a solution for me. I’m wanting to move from tune to tune (whether its Pattern or Song) as seamlessly and effortlessly as possible.

One method I’ve never used before is to Chain Songs/Patterns in a set list. But I’m still wondering what happens when I need to jump out of the Chain, drop or add another song and want to be quick about it. 

The best solution I have at the moment is to make every PATTERN a hybrid. Section A is the entire Song. The remaining Sections are the various elements of the song in Pattern form. I know it sounds like I’m asking/answering my own questions here but I want to double-check my practical knowledge about Song/Pattern Save/Load relationships plus hoping others have dealt with such things and can suggest some alternate methods.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 02, 2021 @ 11:19 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11863
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

You can save all Songs in an “AllSong” (.X6S) file.
You can save all Patterns in an “AllPattern” (.X6P) file.
Neither file Type saves the data of or otherwise influences the other.
Edits made to a Pattern or Song only affect the individual Pattern or Song - there’s no “riding along”.
Only an “All” file saves both Songs and Patterns to a single file.

You can, of course, convert one form of a sequence to another. In Song mode, the “Split Song to Pattern” Job can be used. In Pattern Mode, a Pattern Chain can be created and converted to a Song. Careful use of those functions and proper saving can ensure that you have both forms of your creations backed up.

I’ll leave application of the above to you. Others who gig (I don’t) may want to address that aspect of the discussion.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 02, 2021 @ 01:22 PM
muscarella
Total Posts:  525
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Guru

It’s confusing and annoying. For example, if I’m working in ALLSONG I can’t load anything but another SONG or SMF. Fair enough. But if I ask to load an ALL PATTERN (for a completely different project) it doesn’t deny me. In fact, it will load it’s PATTERNS right over whatever PATTERNS were already there in my current ALLSONG file. It leaves my SONGS intact, in their slots, like nothing happened. If I didn’t realize my PATTERNS had just been recorded over I’d be in for a surprise. And now how do I rename things to reflect the proper state of that project file?

I welcome input from others out there who use Patterns and Songs in a gig environment.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 02, 2021 @ 03:33 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11863
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
muscarella - 02 March 2021 01:22 PM

It’s confusing and annoying. For example, if I’m working in ALLSONG I can’t load anything but another SONG or SMF. Fair enough. But if I ask to load an ALL PATTERN (for a completely different project) it doesn’t deny me. In fact, it will load it’s PATTERNS right over whatever PATTERNS were already there in my current ALLSONG file. It leaves my SONGS intact, in their slots, like nothing happened. If I didn’t realize my PATTERNS had just been recorded over I’d be in for a surprise. And now how do I rename things to reflect the proper state of that project file?

I welcome input from others out there who use Patterns and Songs in a gig environment.

The MOXF won’t allow loading of Patterns when it’s in Song mode, nor will it load Songs when it’s in Pattern mode. In fact, files of the wrong type won’t even be displayed.

Perhaps the file-naming terminology you’re using isn’t what Yamaha calls things, which might explain the confusion.

Hopefully someone else with better insight than I seem to have will post.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 05, 2021 @ 10:20 PM
muscarella
Total Posts:  525
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Guru

I know I’m being kind of whine-y. Largely because I have various Patterns that I made many months back and I’m realizing that when I was dutifully naming and saving those ALLPATTERNS and PATTERNS based on SONGS— I was creating a confusing mess to have to sort through now. So as I go at this again I’m wanting to have a better system to keep track of things, i.e. which PATTERN version of the SONG goes with which SONG or AllSONG or ALLPATTERN. But I’m finding that the various save/load rules leave lots of ways to get old versions mixed up with current versions, etc.

I was certainly surprised to find that you could copy an ALL PATTERN onto an ALL SONG, which is probably how things got so mixed up to begin with.

I have a feeling the Melas software would have come in handy way back for keeping track of things but I enjoy not being leashed to a computer. 

It may just be a “Dude, it is what it is” situation, but I’m always looking for ways to improve work flow and have what I need at my fingertips and everybody uses their MOXF in different ways.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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