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Viewing topic "Help integrating MOXF with LPX"

   
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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 10:08 AM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

I have a MOXF Performance that has the following:

1) Stereo Drums, with an ARP, as Voice one.
2) Mono Bass, with no ARP, as Voice two.
3) Stereo Horns, with an ARP, as Voice three.
4) Stereo EP, with no ARP, as Voice four.

The MOXF has a usb/audio out that can transmit up to a total of (4) Voices, that total being attainable in several combinations such as two stereo pairs, one stereo pair and two mono, etc.

So I want to record just two tracks simultaneously from that Performance, those being the Drums and Bass.

I know how to assign the outputs of the MOXF usb/audio interface and will do so as:
1) Drums assigned to channel 1 & 2.
2) Bass, panned far left, to channel 3.

I will set up Track 1 as a stereo track and will set up track 2 as a mono track.

I know how to assign the inputs for each audio track.

One the drums and bass (with ARPs) are recorded I will next make a third stereo track on LPX and set that track to receive on input one and two and will record the Horns, with ARPs.

So my questions (for now :-) ) are:

1) What Template would you start with?
2) How do I set LPX to send standard MIDI Clock Out to the MOXF on USB port 1?
3) How do you set up LPX so that when I record the Horns (with its ARP), the Horns will be in perfect sync with the Drum and Bass Tracks? 
4) Which Quick Setup would you use on the MOXF?

Thanks!

Jerry

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 12:56 PM
philwoodmusic
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Jerry,

This is a big subject,

Would you mind looking at how to set up sync first? before you look at a good way of tracking the various parts of your performance?

First off, you have no need to worry about templates…

Create yourself an empty session with enough audio tracks (stereo and mono) for the task at hand.

Before you start using sync, make sure your MOXF is set to receive sync data. Do you remember the quick set ups Bad_Mister suggested in a previous post to you?

Once you are happy that your MOXF is set to receive sync data, go back to your Logic project and set Logic’s tempo the same as the tempo of your music.

Make sure Logic is not set to cycle (loop) around the start and stop markers otherwise you could get stuck in an endless recording loop further on in your quest. 

The cycle on/off control is on the Logic transport bar.

So, to sync, then…

- Open up the Logic Menu > Preferences > MIDI.

- On the MIDI page, you will see a tab that says Sync. click on it.

- At the bottom right of the sync page that appears, you will see another tab saying ”MIDI sync project settings.”

- The page that opens up says “MIDI clock” at the top and you should see a drop down menu named Destination 1, click on that and select your MOXF Port 1 as the destination.

- Close all the MIDI and sync preference windows you’ve been using.

This is all you need to do to set up Logic so your MOXF can sync with it.

To test it, go into SONG mode or PATTERN mode on your MOXF, press PLAY in Logic (not on the MOXF) and you will see your MOXF kick into playback at the same time and you will also hear your music.

Press stop on Logic and your MOXF will stop playing too.

If you can do these things, you are set up right and your MOXF is synced to Logic.

Tell us when you have got this far.

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 02:29 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Hello Phil!

I just got home.

I’ve done everything you said and yes, it works perfectly.

What now?

Thanks!

Jerry

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 02:51 PM
philwoodmusic
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Let’s try and get the drums down.

I’m presuming your music is either in song or pattern mode.

- Mute all your parts but not the drums using the mute controls on your MOXF.

- You said drums were assigned to 1 and 2.  If that is so, select your first available STEREO audio track in Logic and set its input to 1 and 2

- Press the R to record enable it, it will go red when you do so.

At this point, Logic should present you with a dialogue box asking you to name the session and set where you want to save the audio.

Name the session and tell it where you want to save the audio then click ok.

Press PLAY on Logic (not record)

Make sure your your DAW level slider on your MOXF is up.

You will hear just your drums part and hopefully see the metering on your Logic track bounce up and down (do make sure your tempo in logic matches the tempo of your music)

If the input level seems low, adjust the output level of the sound on your MOXF.

When you get a nice input level on your Logic audio track, you are ready to try a recording.

Before you do so, it is a good idea to make sure that your MIDI Local control on your MOXF is set to OFF otherwise you will get a weird doubling or phasing sound whilst you record.

Please also make sure that Cycle (Loop) is disabled.

Try a recording:

You can either click the record button with your mouse or simply press R on your qwerty keyboard.

Let Logic record your entire stereo drum track and press stop shortly after the drums stop.

Once recorded, take your audio track in Logic out of record enable.

Be aware that the MOXF is still synced when you play Logic back to hear your recording, so mute your drum part at your MOXF to be sure you are only hearing the audio track you just recorded in Logic, and not both!

See if you can get that done.

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 03:01 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Phil,

Here’s what I would like to do, if possible.

I’m starting with a Performance and want to record the drums (playing by it’s ARP) and the Bass (no ARP) both at the same time for the entire song.

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 03:42 PM
philwoodmusic
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ahh, sorry, my bad,

I took the first time you said “performance” too literally and didn’t realise you meant Performance as in Voice or Performance in ‘Yamaha nomenclature’ on your MOXF.

I assumed it was just a musical performance.

Well, if that is the case, it presents you with a slight problem - STARTING your ARPS in time.

if you want to record your parts as just audio tracks, I’m presuming that since a Performance doesn’t hold much meaningful musical information (like your chord changes for example) that you intend to play it live?

If you are going to play it live then I recommend using a count in with Logic.

The problem then is that since you have introduced a human factor to proceedings, it is likely that none of your parts will start perfectly in time, even with a count in.  They will be round about in time but not perfectly in time (which is why I assumed you wanted to use pattern or song mode)

Could you not convert your performance into a song or pattern first, so it is in your MOXF’s sequencer.

If you could do that, the steps above will work for you.

Your alternative to that conversion is to record MIDI data and sequence your performance in Logic itself and then use that to help you record audio back from your MOXF into logic. (in sync)

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 03:54 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Phil,

While the drums are being recorded on track one I am going to play and record the bass guitar on track two.

Once the bass guitar is recorded I will the record the horns (with ARP) on track three (a stereo track)

AND, at the same time,

record the ep (no ARP) on track four (a stereo track).

Can you help me on doing the above?

Thanks,

Jerry

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 04:24 PM
philwoodmusic
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I might be wrong here but the nature of a Performance is that it can’t just be started by sync data alone.

It surely either needs you to play it, or it needs MIDI note data to play it.

So if you are keen on playing it live and only recording to Audio tracks, then everything is down to how good your timing is.

The EP will have to be done on a separate pass, because your drums are using 1 and 2 and your bass is on 3. (unless you are ok with a mono EP on 4)

I still don’t understand your obsession with having as much as possible recorded in one pass. There’s nothing wrong with doing so but you give yourself more to pay attention to and the possibility of error is heightened.

But…

You can do it, I seriously recommend you don’t because of the timing problems you will find you get from your arps not starting in perfect time.

Audio track 1 - Drums - Inputs 1 and 2 (stereo)

Audio track 2 - Bass - Input 3 (mono)

Audio track 3 - EP - inputs 1 and 2 (record in separate pass after the other parts are recorded)

audio track 4 - Horns - inputs 3 and 4 (record in same pass as EP)

Record enable both tracks for drums and bass, play some notes to get an idea of input level.  If it is too low, then you need to change the output level of each part of your performance on the MOXF.

Set Logic up with a count in, (click the metronome icon on the transport bar)

Press record and start playing when it counts you in - you’ll get one measure as the default count in.

Once you have recorded your drums and bass, take their audio tracks out of record enable, Set your EP to outputs 1 and 2 on your MOXF and mute your other parts so you can only hear your EP and the recorded tracks you made in Logic.

Use your next available STEREO audio track for the EP and set inputs to 1 and 2 (or create a new stereo audio track if you haven’t already)

Same for horns with inputs 3 and 4

Repeat the recording process with the count in.

I do wish you weren’t using a performance and had your music in either Song, Pattern or as a midi file :(

The whole idea of using sync is to ensure perfect timing and that everything plays back perfectly in time. 

Playing it live to audio tracks alone defeats the idea of using sync.

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 04:54 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Phil,

When I play live with my trio, I play Bass with my left hand, keyboard and horns, strings, whatever, with my right hand (all split across the keyboard obviously).

I’m also singing lead vocals on 75% of the songs.

Without sequencing one note, we’re able to pull off songs like Smooth, 25 or 6 to 4, Peg, Brick House, so I’m so used to the pressure (and timing) of playing/doing multiple parts at one time.

So just playing/recording the bass and keyboard at the same time will not be hard for me.

Regardless, I have some more questions:

1) When I turn Local Off, I can’t hear anything. What am I doing wrong?
2) Every time I hit play or stop on LPX, I get that annoying ping again. Why?
3) When I’ve got the track armed and play some chords I’m hearing a “clicking” sound, especially when I’m releasing the keys. Why?

Thanks!

Jerry

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 05:10 PM
philwoodmusic
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I can answer the one about your local control, it needs to be ON, if it isn’t ON you will not hear your arps,

I mistakenly put OFF in my post but you’ll see its been removed, I did it on auto pilot with a song or pattern mindset.

Your local control certainly needs to be ON for ARPS regardless.  Sorry.

Playing it live in your band has nothing to do with what you are doing here.

When you play in your band you automatically hear all 4 parts in time - all out of the stereo left and right outputs of your MOXF - you get a stereo mix of all of it.

Here, you are trying to record all 4 parts to individual audio tracks...and at the same time, keep them in time.  A mixture of stereo and mono tracks.

The fact you will be recording the EP and the Horns in a separate pass means that you will be playing against yourself which is impossible in real life unless you have a clone (in your trio).

So it’s ok saying, “well I play in time” but how well do you play against yourself?.  That’s the real question, because when it comes to adding your EP and Horns, you will be playing against yourself (or the bass and drums previously recorded by you)

ARPs by their very nature are strictly regimented, so if you are a hair out when you track a new one against one you’ve already recorded, you will get flamming and it will sound awful...again this is not something you would ever experience in your band.

I have no useful information or guesses to why you are getting a ping… or a clicking sound on releasing the keys.  It should not be happening, of course.

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Posted on: January 14, 2014 @ 06:08 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Last questions for tonight.

1) When I record just the bass and drums on tracks 1 and 2, and I’m playing along on track 3 with an ep, the ep seems to be recording on track 2 at a low but barely heard volume.

Why?

2) When I use a separate external interface and go out the analog outs, I have none of the previously stated strange noises nor voices being recorded (albeit faint) on tracks I don’t want them recorded on.

Why?

Thanks again!

Jerry

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Posted on: January 15, 2014 @ 03:03 AM
philwoodmusic
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jerrydpi - 14 January 2014 06:08 PM

Last questions for tonight.

1) When I record just the bass and drums on tracks 1 and 2, and I’m playing along on track 3 with an ep, the ep seems to be recording on track 2 at a low but barely heard volume.

Why?

The reason you are hearing it is because you are playing it. 

Because you are playing it, it is coming out of outputs you are already using for your drums and bass.  The Horns could be too.

The EP and Horns should be muted when you record your Bass and Drums.

Then, when you come to record your EP and Horns later on, your Bass and Drums should be muted.

Regarding your unwanted noises, it is almost impossible to tell where they are coming from.  if you can only have 4 parts in your Performance and you are happy that it is not coming from any of them, then it is likely not coming from your MOXF at all.

jerrydpi - 14 January 2014 06:08 PM

2) When I use a separate external interface and go out the analog outs, I have none of the previously stated strange noises nor voices being recorded (albeit faint) on tracks I don’t want them recorded on.

Why?

You should be listening to the MOXF analog outputs regardless.  This is the only way to hear it unless you are using headphones plugged into PHONES on your MOXF.

I wonder how you were listening to it before you decided to listen via the MOXf analog outputs?

You shouldn’t need to involve an external interface to do this.

Perhaps this is where you are having strange noise problems in that you have two interfaces connected?

Your MOXF counts as one, your external interface counts as the other.

I noticed your other post,

Bad_mister has suggested (as I did but in way less detail) to convert your Performance into the MOXF sequencer.  He’s given you really clear instructions on how to do it.

You will find everything so much easier when you do that and your ARPS will START in time no matter what.

You can then set up Logic’s sync preferences as you did before etc

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Posted on: January 15, 2014 @ 03:32 AM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  968
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

The EP and Horns should be muted when you record your Bass and Drums.

So how do I play along with an ep without it being recorded?
Is it a panning issue on the Voice?

Regarding your unwanted noises, it is almost impossible to tell where they are coming from.  if you can only have 4 parts in your Performance and you are happy that it is not coming from any of them, then it is likely not coming from your MOXF at all.

I get a “Ping” sound (D#) when I hit Play and a “Ping” sound (D) when I hit Stop.

Where should I look on LPX?

Perhaps this is where you are having strange noise problems in that you have two interfaces connected?

No, I’m only using the MOXF interface in this case. I only mentioned the other interface to let you know when I use it (input from the MOXF analog outs) that the problem doesn’t occur.

Lastly, I have the tempo on LPX and the MOXF set at 123, but every now and then last night I noticed that the tempo would start playing at 127.

Why?

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Posted on: January 19, 2014 @ 01:33 AM
Jas65
Total Posts:  65
Joined  12-28-2013
status: Experienced

Phil, thank yiu for the clear explain how to set up the midisync!!

I have on quest in the recordin matter..youre talking about record audiotracks here if im not wrong, I assume this is possibble to also do with a midi recording.

Lets say…

I have a recorded performance (4 parts, all of them include arps, if I want to record this as midi from a pattern for instance to logic on separate tracks (with the arps) is this then possibble, Badmister wrote something in a previous thread that some arps could be recordable but im not really understand what that means, Im not a native english so understanding some parts is really difficult, could you please tell me if this is possible..recording arps as midi and have the mox playing them back when pressing play on Logic.

Thanks
Jack

(sorry Jerry for hijacking yours subject)

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Posted on: January 19, 2014 @ 04:09 AM
philwoodmusic
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Yes Bad_Mister made a very nice suggestion and it involves recording your ARPs to the internal sequencer so they cease to be arps and become data but still sound the same.

Bad_Mister - 14 January 2014 11:38 PM



Record your data PERFORMANCE to the one piece of gear that was designed to record your playing four PARTS at once without much trouble at all. (Yes, the MOXF) It’s as easy as 1-2-3 (F1-F2-F3 that is):

Call up your PERFORMANCE
Press [RECORD]
The [F1] SETUP Screen appears
Set the target to a blank SONG
Press [F2] REC TR
Set the target to Tracks 1-4
Press [F3] OTHER
Set the KEY ON START = ON

Record your PERFORMANCE to the MOXF sequencer… rinse and repeat until you are happy with how it sounds on playback.

If you want to put the result of that in Logic, you can export a MIDI file from your MOX Sequencer and import it into Logic.

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Posted on: January 19, 2014 @ 04:36 AM
Jas65
Total Posts:  65
Joined  12-28-2013
status: Experienced

Ok, thank you, one last curious quest..

Beside exporting a midi file could this be achieved just like when recording a audiotrack..sync logic with the moxf, press record on logic and the selected miditrack within moxf seq starts to record on a miditrack? (prercorded in moxf seq)

Thanks
Jack

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