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Viewing topic "MOXF - Transfering midi data from MOXF to Cubase"

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 12:44 PM
Total Posts:  4
Joined  06-05-2013
status: Newcomer

Hello Bad_Mister,

I just bought a MOXF8 which is my first time venturing into the workstation world (I’ve been using a midi keyboard with Logic and Reason).  I also purchased and watched your DVD entitled “Discovering the Yamaha MOX” which has been very helpful in getting me familiarized with all the features this beast has to offer. 

In the video you discuss how to transfer audio created in a performance or pattern from the MOX to Cubase in order to free up polyphony and to take advantage of further processing within the DAW environment.  My question for you is - Is there a way to transfer the midi data of a performance created in the MOXF to Cubase?  What I am looking to do is create my initial composition in the MOXF and then transfer that performance into Cubase with each instrument appearing on a separate track as midi data.  I would like to do this in order to work on further arrangements, edit the notes I played (including quantizing, pitching, etc.) and possibly selecting a different 3rd party VST for the same midi notes played on the MOXF, etc. 

This was not covered in the DVD so I am hoping you or anyone else on this forum can help shed some light on this subject for me.  Love my new MOXF and am excited about the new doors of inspiration and creativity this beast will unleash in me!

Thanks again for the great tutorial!!!


  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 01:11 PM
Total Posts:  36620
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Thank you for your kind words and welcome to the forums!

I highly recommend recording the MOXF Performance to the Internal sequencer initially, because this will do several things do you
1) it will “write out” all the arpeggio data as MIDI data to the tracks of the internal sequencer in addition to the music part you play on the keyboard… Separating all data as necessary
2) it will copy the Parts of the Performance to either the Song or Pattern area (which you will want to use when continuing your work in Cubase, as these are the Multi-timbral/multiple MIDI channel modes) This allows you to easily reunite the Voice with the musical (MIDI) data to trigger it.

Now instead of complicated setups to transfer the data to the computer, you can either simply transfer it in real time or you can export it to a Standard MIDI File and load it directly into a Cubase project.

Direct Performance Record is a way to “jump start” the composition.

Real time transfer
Set Cubase as Master clock sending MIDI clock out to the MOXF port 1
Set the MOXF MIDI SYNC to the external clock and to follow start/stop commands via MIDI
Setup a single Cubase MIDI track to receive from the MOXF port 1, set to CHANNEL = ANY to receive the data
set the Tempo in Cubase, press play
The MOXF will playback the data while the DAW records all data
Finally, you can use the function (found in the MIDI pulldown) DISSOLVE PARTS - By Channel… To separate the data separate tracks.

We should probably post the actual step-by-step in an article, but the above serves as an outline of tpwhat you should setup.

File Transfer
STORE the Song or Pattern in the MOXF
Go to FILE
Save the data with TYPE = SMF
Move the cursor down to NAME the file… SF1 EXEC
You will be asked to select the Song or the Pattern+Section to export
When you have saved this to a USB stick simply go to Cubase > File > Import > MIDI File
Or you can simply drag and drop the .MID file into a Cubase Project…

You can set the defaults of Cubase so it automatically sets it up assigned to your MOXF and each part on separate MIDI Tracks!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 01:37 PM
Total Posts:  4
Joined  06-05-2013
status: Newcomer

Perfect!  Thank you Bad_Mister for the quick response.  I will try this out and update this post with my progress.

Again, I appreciate the quick help!!!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 09:37 PM
Total Posts:  4
Joined  06-05-2013
status: Newcomer


Happy to report that the “real time transfer” worked without a glitch; I was able transfer the song I composed in my MOXF into Cubase as a midi track and then separate them using the data separate function under the midi tab.  I then tried to take it to the next level by further separating my drum track into individual tracks based on the instrument being played (bass drum, snare, hi hat, etc.) using the separate by pitch option.  That function worked as well, however, I am currently unable to edit the volume of the individual drum parts (e.g. I would like to increase the volume of the bass drum but when I try and adjust the bass drum’s volume fader it increases the volume for all of the other drum parts as well).  Is there a way to (for lack of a better word) “ungroup” the midi drum tracks in order to edit the volume of the individual instruments? 

Beyond adjusting the volume, having my drum parts separated will be helpful when I want to do things such as parallel compressing the bass drum and the snare. 

I appreciate your expertise on how to most efficiently accomplish this task.


  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 28, 2013 @ 02:32 AM
Total Posts:  36620
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Volume in MIDI is a Channel message. This is why you cannot raise the level of a drum using your method. The “track” is a space to store MIDI data, which are just control messages like note-ons and controller settings. So changing MIDI volume affects all data on the MIDI channel.

It’s like that old joke where you are looking for your keys under the lamp post, (because the light is better) even though you dropped them a block ago. In other words, you are looking in the wrong place to affect the output level of the individual drum within a KIT.

Several things other than the Channel Volume will affect the output of the Kick drum. Instead of changing the overall volume of the MIDI channel, you actually want to go to the source - the tone engine itself and edit parameters in the tone engine that influence output level:
1) velocity - on most drum kits the kick drum is velocity sensitive on a scale of 1-127
2) individual output level of the drum key itself - each KEY in a drum kit has an adjustable output

Remember MIDI data is not audio. Rather than the overall channel volume, you want to increase the audio output level at the “source”.

_ Editing Velocity can give you more output. (the NOTE-ON Velocity is found by editing the sequence Track data)
_ Editing the Drum kit can also give you more output. Each Drum within a KIT has its own OUTPUT LEVEL parameter. Each Drum KEY also has a -6, -12, +6, and +12dB cut/boost within the drum kit. These are invaluable when wishing to record separate drums to your DAW. This cut/boost is found when preparing the Drum Kit in VOICE EDIT mode… Each KEY has an EQ, which is configurable as a 2-band, or 1-band EQ or as a straight cut/boost. (the individual drum Element editing is done in VOICE mode - you must Edit the drum kit and STORE it to a USER DRUM location).

Alternative methods
The alternatives include separating each Drum to a track so you route it from the MOXF to your DAW separately.
Or to wait until you render the drum sound as audio to raise the output level.

The MOXF’s dual stereo outputs, allows you to isolate particular sounds… such that in multiple passes, you can create separate tracks for those items you wish to process separately in your DAW.

There is only need to isolate a PART to a separate DAW audio track if you have plans to some how process its audio independently of the other instruments. Dividing the drums in the MOXF will allow you to process each drum before it arrives in Cubase!

Is there a way to (for lack of a better word) “ungroup” the midi drum tracks in order to edit the volume of the individual instruments?

You could have done this back in the MOXF. Because you can synchronize clocks of the DAW and the MOXF, it is total possible to transfer data in segments convenient to what you wish to accomplish. You could take your single MIDI track copy it to a separate blank Song location.
Using the feature DIVIDE DRUM TRACK, the MOXF can split your different drums to separate tracks. Placing all the kicks on either track 1 or 2, all the snare/side sticks, etc on tracks 3 and 4, etc, dividing them by drum

You can learn about “ungrouping” drums (called DIVIDE DRUM TRACK) in the article:
Drum Track Construction Tools

Although written for the MOX, it applies in full to the MOXF. The article will take you through some things you may not know yet about how the MOXF allows you to manipulate the drum kits and their individual instrument sounds.

Beyond adjusting the volume, having my drum parts separated will be helpful when I want to do things such as parallel compressing the bass drum and the snare

You cannot compress MIDI data in the same way you compress audio and get the same results. Again MIDI data is not audio; perhaps you should wait until you render the drums as separate audio tracks before you seek to adjust their Volumes. Or take the route of editing the DRUM KITS - when multi-tracking audio it is fairly common to investigate customizing individual Drums. Remember it is not the entire 73 Drums you have to edit… mostly it is the principal drums that you wind up wanting to work with. Moving the drum data and the drums around is skill worth investigating. In the MOXF you can isolate (separate) individual Drums - reassign them to different sounds, audition different sounds. And while you have them on separate MIDI tracks it is an easy thing to transfer (print) the exact sound you want for that drum.

The EQ, compressors and other effects found in your MOXF are the equivalent of a full compliment of boutique processors - you would need to spend hundreds of dollars to get processors even close to what you already have on board.

Isolating your KICK, for example, (you can COPY the entire Drum track to a blank SONG or PATTERN and work on it), then using DIVIDE DRUM TRACK function you can separate each sound, which gives you the opportunity to bring the full processing power of the MOXF to bare on your Kick drum sound, separate from the Snare, the Hihats, the Toms, etc.!

On projects that warrant this level of detail knowing how to isolate data via the dual Stereo Output arrangement means you can send the data to be recorded to a dedicated output to be recorded, while you monitor the other PARTS via the other stereo output, this allows you to hear what you are printing as audio within the context of the music. You are doing an isolate recording of the KICK but you can hear the entire piece. This is the only way to really EQ, and get “a sound” - work on it in context of the music. EQ’ing a kick drum alone, can work, but your opinion tends to change when you blend it with other instruments. Ultimately, it is how it works in context with the other sounds, not how it sounds alone…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 29, 2013 @ 11:58 AM
Total Posts:  4
Joined  06-05-2013
status: Newcomer

Really good info here to consume.  Thanks again for the help!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: April 23, 2014 @ 09:36 AM
Total Posts:  1
Joined  04-23-2014
status: Newcomer

Hi Bad_Mister & eredmond21,

This question was EXACTLY the poser that was concerning me as I research a synth workstation purchase.

So, just a note to say ‘thank you, Bad_Mister’, for providing that answer.

I suspected that it might be done with: “out the MIDI port and with clock sync”, or at worst, .SMF, which I never used - but I was unsure that I could work it out myself.

I hope your instructions work easily for me too.

Bad_Mister wrote:

“We should probably post the actual step-by-step in an article, but the above serves as an outline of tpwhat you should setup.”

Gee, wouldn’t it be nice… If it’s convenient and possible, I know I would appreciate it...however, I’ve found a great resource here at motifator, so I feel I’ve won already.

My requirement is for a workflow that allows reasonable genesis and idea exploration and amplification on the workstation alone, then transfer to the DAW to progress development and tuning, mixing to the end. My shortlist has been: Kurzweil PC3LE8, Korg Krome 88, Roland FA-08 and Yamaha MOXF8. MOXF8 is the only candidate, in the end, when I assess the feature sets against my requirements. So, mental settle for a few days, then off to the music store for a keyboard purchase after over 20 years (not counting the digital piano for my son to learn on a few years ago).

Well, it’s been a while since I bought the Yamaha SY35 in ‘92 with the Atari 1040 and Cubase, and before that, my first keyboard, the Roland U-20 with Notator in ‘89. Ah, memories, I was young and my time was my own to spend back then - between then and now, a lot of time has passed - with a growing family, you makes your choices, and I wouldn’t change giving the family priority, and I intend to never change that. Music has always been there, I’ve made it an ongoing presence for the kids, and they’re the better for it for sure, and in all the time that’s passed, it’s always been in my head, never abating.

Now, we’ll see what comes out, if anything… I thought I’d be using Reaper, but with the MOXF DAW integration, it looks like I’ll be getting to know another old friend again, Cubase…

Thanks, again.

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