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Viewing topic "Logic 9, XF, Firewire issues"

     
Posted on: March 25, 2013 @ 02:59 PM
dougvf
Total Posts:  10
Joined  02-28-2013
status: Newcomer

Using FW to Logic on MBP OS 10.8.3 from my motif xf.
I am able to play the built in sounds in logic from Motif but unable to figure out how to get motif to play its sounds and record in Logic ( 8 hours of youtube, motivator, hair pulling).

My settings in Utility are:
DAW type =Logic
MIDI IN/OUT= FW

Song MODE
Sequencer quick control #3

I have selected a “new” audio track in logic.
I do not see Motif in Library panel ( read this on internet)
I can see MIDI keyboard input with keystrokes.

Would really appreciate some direction on this. Must be something simple Im over looking as I cant find anybody else out there with the same prob.
Thanks,
DVF

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Posted on: March 25, 2013 @ 10:43 PM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Song MODE
Sequencer quick control #3

I have selected a “new” audio track in logic.

We try to capture exactly where you have gone left instead of right. And the above are two things that are not like each other.

The most often confused things come down to MIDI and AUDIO.

MIDI routing and audio routing. When connecting a workstation synth, like the XF to a computer running Logic or any DAW, we can no longer ignore the reality that they can impact each other. What is confusing for many is that they deal with these thing separately, instead of together. And until you do, you can be caught expecting to hear sound from MIDI, which as we all know cannot be heard.

MIDI data is a series of coded messages, that must be converted into audio by a synthesizer tone engine. we know this. How the separate routing of the MIDI messages are impacted by and how they impact the audio, is what we are dealing with here.

Here’s what happened. You are in SONG MODE because this lets you access the Motif XF as a sixteen Part Multi-timbral synthesizer tone generator. This is good.

You selected Quick Sequencer Setup #3: Recording on Computer.
You would select this quick template in a situation where you are going to be recording real time MIDI data to your DAW. When you look at the [SEQ SETUP] > [F3] QUICK screen, you can see the six critical settings this template is going to make when you press ENTER. Let’s talk about the very first one…

LOCAL CONTROL is OFF, this disconnects the Motif XF keyboard from triggering the Motif XF tone generator… Such that the MIDI messages generated by the XF Keyboard and controllers go OUT via FW-MIDI to your DAW’s MIDI Track (which is why you can’t hear it) local control, the parameter that lets the XF keys play the XF tone engine is OFF. In affect you have turned audio off.

The Quick Setup you have selected is not correct for generating AUDIO from the XF tone engine.

You would have to either:
1) Send (echo) the MIDI signal back to the XF so that the tone generator can produce audio (sound)
Or
2) Turn Local Control ON so your XF Keyboard is connected, as it normally would be when you want to generate sound (audio), to your XF tone engine.

The first method is the beginning of what is called “VST Instrument routing to an external module” ... Where MIDI is sent into the DAW, routed to a synth tone engine, that creates the audio, the audio is then returned to the DAW as “virtual audio track”

The second method is just common sense… In order to hear yourself play the XF with the XF keyboard directly, make sure LOCAL CONTROL is ON.

You have selected a Quick Template designed for when you are recording MIDI data to a DAW

If your goal as stated when you created an Audio Track in Logic was to record audio, then why did you select a Quick Template that turned audio OFF? (That’s where the mistake was made).. You did not know the meaning of “recording on computer” in this instance… It means MIDI

Once you start to see what the intent of the template, it starts to make sense. MIDI affects whether the keyboard communicates to the tone generator. When recording audio make sure messages are flowing between the XF keyboard and the XF tone engine.

If you are not recording MIDI, then there is no special template or setup necessary, the XF is normally outputting audio through all of its output types, you’d have to do something extraordinary to stop it! Audio routing is straight forward, where you choose to listen (monitor) the audio is controlled by the FW MONITOR SETUP.

Recording straight audio to the DAW can be done in FW MONITOR SETUP “with PC Direct Monitor” or in “Standalone”. Either will work…

If you select VSTi routing, you might opt for FW MONITOR SETUP “with PC” as this allows you to listen to audio same as you would a soft synth, through the virtual audio routing within the DAW. You are listening to the audio after (post) it arriving in the computer. Key trigger travels to Logic MIDI track, track echoes MIDI event back to XF Tone Generator, XF Tone Generator outputs audio which is RETURNED to Logic via audio bus input. Now you can hear the XF!  The “with PC” monitoring setup lets you listen to the signal post traveling through the computer so any processing you do “in the box” will be heard. It turns the “local” audio connection between the XF tone engine and the XF main outputs OFF, so that the audio which is returned to the DAW can be monitored alone.

You can select where you monitor, when you understand the routing, and the signal flow.

Don’t let the FW throw you. The routing would be the same if it used separate wires, MIDI is still MIDI, audio is audio. FW actually makes it easier to deal with, because one connector does it all. But visualizing signal flow is the most important skill you can develop when troubleshooting the systems.

And Bad_Mister’s tip: Don’t use a TEMPLATE until you fully understand its reason to exist. Then only use it if that is exactly what you want to do. Ultimately, learn to make your own, wherever possible.

Hope that helps.

Sequencer Setup is MIDI.
FW Monitor Setup is Audio.

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Posted on: March 26, 2013 @ 12:44 AM
dougvf
Total Posts:  10
Joined  02-28-2013
status: Newcomer

Thank you. I will try that today.
I undertood that when local control was turned off that the audio would go to the DAW and then back to the motif sound generator hence create a dual/echo sound.

Besides the manual are you aware of any good documents/dvd/youtube video that explain all of this. Seems like a common issue for beginning recorders with a motif.

Thanks again Phil.
DVF

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