Hi, my objective is quite straightforward and I’m sure it’s a common requirement for gigging keyboard players… but I’m struggling to work it out!

I’d like to change the programs on the MOX6 via midi from my master keyboard (in my case a Roland RD-700sx). I’m able to set up the Roland to send program changes (1-128) which will change the voice in the current selected bank on the MOX6.

However, what I would like to be able to do is to get the MOX6 to swap banks and also swap from PERFORM to VOICE in some situations.

That way, when I call up the set up on my Roland, it will find exactly the right voice on the MOX without having to spend time toggling through the banks.

Can this be done?

Welcome to the Forums!

Sorry we can’t help you with programming your Roland. But we can help you with what you need to know to control your MOX.

To select VOICES in the MOX [VOICE] mode, you must send both Bank Select and Program Change commands. The MOX has eight Preset Banks, three User Banks, 1 Preset Drum Bank, 1 User Drum Bank, 1 GM Normal Bank, and 1 GM Drum.
The BANK SELECT messages allow you to switch Banks, the PROGRAM CHANGE messages allow you to select a VOICE within the Bank.

To select PERFORMANCE in the MOX [PERFORM] mode, you must send both Bank Select and Program Change commands. The MOX has two User Performance Banks.
The BANK SELECT messages allow you to switch Banks, the PROGRAM CHANGE messages allow you to select a PERFORMANCE within the Bank.

In order to switch MODES, you must send a MIDI PARAMETER CHANGE message (using SYSTEM EXCLUSIVE).  MODES are quite a bit different than BANKS.

Modes can contain multiple Banks, just like Banks can contain multiple Programs.

In order to change from VOICE mode to PERFORMANCE mode for example you would need to send the MOX the following message from your MASTER Control Keyboard:

F0 43 10 7F 14 0A 00 01 01 F7

In order to switch from PERFORMANCE mode to VOICE mode:

F0 43 10 7F 14 0A 00 01 00 F7

Alternate Method
As an alternate method you can address the MOX setups using MASTER mode. You can use the MASTER mode to organize your MOX programs. Master mode allows you to place in order, your favorite program - be it a VOICE, a PERFORMANCE, a SONG or a PATTERN. You simply associate a MASTER program 001-128 with any internal VOICE, PERFORM, SONG or PATTERN - and you can simply advance through them with a foot switch connected to the MOX’s Assignable Foot Switch jack. ([UTILITY] > [F4] CONTRL ASSIGN > [SF2] FT SW (Foot Switch))
FS = 98 PC INC)

You may discover that the MOX makes a better Master Controller (when it comes to program selection) than your other keyboard in that it has the ability to send both BANK SELECT and PROGRAM CHANGES and can send System Exclusive message via its Sequencer to an external device, if and when necessary. It certainly can organize its own program into one convenient MASTER bank.

hope that helps.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

In addition to the excellent and detailed summary from Bad_Mister…

As he said, switching between modes requires sysex, which may be complicated (or impossible) to send form your Roland; and, if I understand correctly, Master mode (which allows you to mix Voices and Performances freely) does not respond to external Program Change commands. But another way to mix Voices and Performances freely in the same Mode which will permit easy external switching among them would be to stay in Performance mode, and create some Performances that simply consist of nothing more than the one Voice you wanted to switch to Voice mode in order to invoke. That is, since a Performance can, itself, consist of nothing more than one Voice, that may be an easy solution to the mode-switching issue.

Hi

Thank you so much for the detailed info! And a super fast reply too!! :-)

I had previously tried changing the MSB and LSB settings on my Roland but they didn’t appear to have any affect. However, I discovered that I needed to change MSB to 63 and the LSB corresponds to the bank (although the numbers don’t match exactly – eg. 3 corresponds to bank 4 on the MOX!). It’s only when both SB numbers are set correctly that changing the PC number has any affect on the MOX. No wonder I was scratching my head!!

Unfortunately, as you have both said, it won’t swap the MOX from VOICE mode to PERFORM mode but it will now change the banks.... a huge time saver! Now, when playing live, all I need to do is to first check that the MOX is in the correct mode for the song we’re playing and then change the SETUP on the RD… and hey presto!!

This has been annoying me for quite some time, so now I’m punching the air with satisfaction!!

I tried the MASTER mode idea, but as you pointed out, it’s not ideal. Although different sounds can be called up, the display doesn’t seem to change - no good!

I considered putting all the sounds I use into PERFORM mode but that would be time consuming and I’m reluctant to overwrite too many of those nice presets already in there.

So, for any other keyboard players with the same setup (Roland RD-700sx and Yamaha MOX6) and who have the same issue, thanks to you guys I can summarise:

Set Roland EXTERNAL ZONE:
Ch - 1 (or whatever corresponds to the midi receive channel on your MOX)
MSB - 63
LSB - 1-10 for the bank you want (note that 0=PRE1, 1=PRE2 etc)
PC - 1-128 set this to match the voice number required

Thanks again,
Phil

Okay there are several things that can really help you.

First, MIDI was designed by engineers. They were musicians but they also were engineers - so the first thing you must get used to is that engineers are literal, the rest of us not so much. So when you ask a engineer to count to ten, they (correctly) start at 0. Ask any non-engineer to count to ten and they start at 1.

Yes, you can get everyone (even the non-engineers) to agree, that well, Yes, it is actually correct to start with 0, but… we see it as a ‘trick’ question.

So often you will run into this with the coded messages in MIDI. the coded messages for the first MIDI Program Change is 000, not 001

So when you are trying to recall the VOICE in location 128, you may have to send PC 127. Now this would be great if every product followed the same but you have to check what each product does with this “convention”. You may have to deal with this 0-127 instead of 1-128 issue.

I could write a book about all the little stumbling blocks that exist. Musicians complain bitterly (but it not as if music is so very logical either - ever wonder why they write double staff piano music with two different clefs?  Well, computers are built by engineers too, so the 0 vs 1 thing will rare its head from time to time. Stay vigilant.

Then you have Hexadecimal coding… you can see in the attachment I posted the Hex equivalent for the Bank numbers.. PRESET BANK 1 is recalled by LSB 00

I tried the MASTER mode idea, but as you pointed out, it’s not ideal. Although different sounds can be called up, the display doesn’t seem to change - no good!

The display should change - this is a clear indication (to me at least) that what you are doing is addressing the individual sound within a multi-MIDI channel setup. That is, although we are not sure what you were exactly trying to send; in my Alternate Solution, I’m telling you not to send anything from your RD

- in MASTER mode you can advance through the programs with a foot switch (not with a Bank Select and Program Change). The FOOT SWITCH is plugged into the MOX - I suggest you place at your feet, step on it and the MOX will be ready for you next setup.

Do not use Bank Select/Program Changes, System Exclusive messages… I’m offering a very analog, very simple, very organic solution.

No Sysex, No Cry! :-)

That Bank Select chart will come in handy, thanks!  I was wondering, however, how does one change the current “Master” remotely via MIDI?  From your comment, it doesn’t seem possible:

“- in MASTER mode you can advance through the programs with a foot switch (not with a Bank Select and Program Change). The FOOT SWITCH is plugged into the MOX - I suggest you place at your feet, step on it and the MOX will be ready for you next setup.”

bdub - 20 July 2012 01:09 PM

...I was wondering, however, how does one change the current “Master” remotely via MIDI?

5pinDIN and others have recommended THIS in the past.

“If needed, this MIDI Event Processor can convert CC or other messages to custom SysEx.” (5pinDIN)

For more, check out THIS thread.

cmayhle - 20 July 2012 01:33 PM

bdub - 20 July 2012 01:09 PM

...I was wondering, however, how does one change the current “Master” remotely via MIDI?

5pinDIN and others have recommended THIS in the past.

“If needed, this MIDI Event Processor can convert CC or other messages to custom SysEx.” (5pinDIN)

For more, check out THIS thread.

It seems, since Master mode is really recalling things from other modes (voices, performances, songs and patterns), that this cannot be done with the MSB/LSB/PGM type of MIDI message.  Is that what your response is trying to convey?

Correct, via MIDI it will require a system exclusive message.