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Viewing topic "Motif XS vs Motif XF???"

   
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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 01:15 AM
tac2010
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-19-2010
status: Newcomer

Guys ,

Do you think the XF is worthy the extra money versus the XS??

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 01:18 AM
delirium
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Total Posts:  2441
Joined  11-16-2006
status: Guru

nope.  You pay ore money for XF and you get less RAM extendability, smaller keys (visually), only 1 voltage power supply against dual voltage on XS and more - less.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 07:09 AM
Bad_Mister
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This, of course, is your choice. Please play no attention to the forum’s class clown - and the misinformation he provides.

The XS has been discontinued and replaced with the XF. That is the first thing to know as a potential buyer. The XS was released back in 2007… the XF several months ago.

The XF comes with 128MB of SDRAM right out of the box. The XS came with none, (just for the record). You could expand your XS with DIMMs (two matching PC100/PC133 sticks) to a recommended maximum of 1GB. DIMMs are/were volatile memory - which means like most samplers when you powered down the memory is lost. This means you must reload any sample libraries or user created samples that you were working with, each time you power on.

The XF is expandable via 512MB or 1024MB Flash Memeory Expansion Modules. There are two slots so you can have 512MB, 1024MB, 1536MB or 2048MB of non-volatile memory for your custom Waveforms and Samples.

In the new memory configuration, the 128MB of SDRAM is your on board “work” area (it is volatile memory, similar to RAM on your computer). You would record audio (sample) into this area or transfer data from your FLASH to this area when you need to edit the audio data itself. Data can then be “installed” onto the FLASH modules where it is always available for access. No more long waiting times for your custom sample data to be ready to go when you power up at a gig or session.

Buy the Motif XF in the country you live in and it will come with the proper power supply to run where you live - that is a non-issue. You need only one voltage - if you are a touring musician, standard step-up/step-down power units can be used (no tour leaves without them).

You can anticipate that you will undoubtedly be keeping your synth workstation for several years and from this point on the focus of new materials that become available will most naturally be on the latest version of the series.  The XF can read, load and import 99.9% of all data created on an XS, but the reverse is not going to be the case. Just FYI.

The XS is a great synth and, of course, so is the XF. If you are not worried about buying at the end of the cycle or after a keyboard has been discontinued, you may in fact, be able to find some very good deals on the XS now. Just be aware that the newer hardware is going to be capable of some things that were not possible on the old hardware. That is why there is new hardware - in order to make some of the changes it simply required new hardware.

Hope that helps.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 09:06 AM
tac2010
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-19-2010
status: Newcomer

Thanks ! That really helps me!

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 09:23 AM
johnawesley
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Total Posts:  193
Joined  11-20-2009
status: Pro

Also for the record, Yamaha is going to come out with a Major OS update for the XS in the near future.

It will give the XS some of the software features of the XF.  Not all of them mind you, but a lot of them, including Tap Tempo found on the XF and S90XS.

Anything else is in this coming OS upgrade for the XS, is a major bonus and we are grateful to Yamaha for supporting even it’s discontinued products.

That is what you are buying into here.  A company that cares about it’s customers and listens to them, and supports them.

If they will support the XS even though discontinued, you can be sure to get the XF and it will be supported for a long time.

Good luck and Welcome....

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 09:31 AM
synthlogic
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johnawesley - 15 December 2010 09:23 AM

Also for the record, Yamaha is going to come out with a Major OS update for the XS in the near future.

It will give the XS some of the software features of the XF.  Not all of them mind you, but a lot of them, including Tap Tempo found on the XF and S90XS.

What button will we tap?

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 10:32 AM
johnawesley
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synthlogic - 15 December 2010 09:31 AM
johnawesley - 15 December 2010 09:23 AM

Also for the record, Yamaha is going to come out with a Major OS update for the XS in the near future.

It will give the XS some of the software features of the XF.  Not all of them mind you, but a lot of them, including Tap Tempo found on the XF and S90XS.

What button will we tap?

That’s a question for Yamaha, as I am not sure which buttons they will assign for the various XS, OS upgrades but we will know when the update comes.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 12:35 PM
Bad_Mister
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Most likely TAP will be assigned same as it is on the Motif XF… where currently it is assigned to the [SF6] button. It shows up in the context when it would be used:
Main SONG screen
Main PATTERN screen
Main VOICE screen
Main PERFORMANCE screen
Main MASTER screen

Don’t hold me to it but that seems like it makes sense.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 05:34 PM
Cutdawgent
Total Posts:  61
Joined  06-24-2009
status: Experienced

As it stands now, the xf is a total ripoff. Yes it uses flash ram instead of dimm memory, but at what cost? $600 for 2gb of memory vs the xs which could be as low as $40. Sure, the flash cards hold on to your samples on I have a dirty mouth. down and power up, but yamaha fails to mention how much longer it takes to load samples on these cards vs the dimm cards. Other than that, the boards are exactly the same minus the color change, and an f instead if an s after the x. Now that you can get an xs fo a little bit of nothing, that would be your most economic choice. In my opinion, the xf should have been an upgrade option, not a half assed attempt at a new board.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 06:35 PM
zikerstu
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Total Posts:  326
Joined  08-06-2008
status: Enthusiast

It’s a personal preference! If you can go check both models out at your local dealer, definitely do it. I already have an XS and it does everything I could ask for, but if I didn’t have it, I’d probably go with the latest model available! Flash memory is very nice to have, especially for live performances.

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Posted on: December 15, 2010 @ 08:25 PM
youdog
Total Posts:  482
Joined  01-30-2009
status: Enthusiast
Cutdawgent - 15 December 2010 05:34 PM

As it stands now, the xf is a total ripoff. Yes it uses flash ram instead of dimm memory, but at what cost? $600 for 2gb of memory vs the xs which could be as low as $40. Sure, the flash cards hold on to your samples on I have a dirty mouth. down and power up, but yamaha fails to mention how much longer it takes to load samples on these cards vs the dimm cards. Other than that, the boards are exactly the same minus the color change, and an f instead if an s after the x. Now that you can get an xs fo a little bit of nothing, that would be your most economic choice. In my opinion, the xf should have been an upgrade option, not a half assed attempt at a new board.

Watch how you use the word “same” around here!!!
You cant said about the same without making someone very mad!
This all I will say about it is the XF is not a big jump from a XS but it is a bit different not the same.

I’m sorry if I make anyone hate me or mad for what I just said about the XS/XF.

Yamaha has not done a good job showing the different other then the color/flashboard opinion.
If the flash memory option is not the big different then what is it/ ?s like that make folk mad.

And D is right about alot of what he say and i see he is not mad but happy so if you kick him off do the same with me.

You cant have your own opinion about the XF you must shutup or lay like you see the BIG Big big different other than flash momory and color.

If you need flash momory and have $1200 more get the XF if not get the XS both are Motif’s.

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Posted on: December 16, 2010 @ 06:04 AM
Coowallsky
Total Posts:  1004
Joined  06-18-2003
status: Guru
Cutdawgent - 15 December 2010 05:34 PM

As it stands now, the xf is a total ripoff. Yes it uses flash ram instead of dimm memory, but at what cost? $600 for 2gb of memory vs the xs which could be as low as $40. Sure, the flash cards hold on to your samples on I have a dirty mouth. down and power up, but yamaha fails to mention how much longer it takes to load samples on these cards vs the dimm cards. Other than that, the boards are exactly the same minus the color change, and an f instead if an s after the x. Now that you can get an xs fo a little bit of nothing, that would be your most economic choice. In my opinion, the xf should have been an upgrade option, not a half assed attempt at a new board.

Athan, Phil, and Dave Polich are on record for saying there are indeed more than cosmetic & Flash vs. RAM differences.

Should we believe you? (Credentials: ) Or them? (Credentials: 2 very experienced technical Yamaha employees and a recognized & respected Programmer of not only some of the XF voices but also voices back to the original Motif)

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Posted on: December 16, 2010 @ 06:09 AM
EMANALPHA
Total Posts:  117
Joined  01-11-2008
status: Pro

Many blessings I purchased both! XS6 for portability and the XF for newer technology and that piano feel. My purchases are passion driven not to say my gigs haven’t paid for them both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL GOOD!

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Posted on: February 02, 2013 @ 08:15 PM
snoitan
Total Posts:  6
Joined  02-01-2013
status: Newcomer
Coowallsky - 16 December 2010 06:04 AM

Should we believe you? (Credentials: ) Or them? (Credentials: 2 very experienced technical Yamaha employees and a recognized & respected Programmer of not only some of the XF voices but also voices back to the original Motif)

Keep in mind that saying “2 very experienced technical Yamaha employees” essentially means 2 people very knowledgeable people who are also very likely biased, especially considering the forum. 

My biggest question in the “XS vs XF” debate is sound quality.  I was in a Guitar Center earlier today listening to an XF8 and drooling.  I played a bit on a Roland Fantom G and came away dreaming about the XF8.  It just seemed to have a very full sound with beautiful accoustics.

If I could get that same sound in an XS, I would be a proud new owner.  I wish I could find an XS around Dallas so I could play on it and see if it has the same quality of sound coming from it.

The specs on both lead me to believe they have the same engine but the XF8 has more MB devoted to the sounds, which certainly can lead to better quality.  But also means the XS has the same potential and likely the exact same quality coming from a sizable portion of the sounds.

Certainly, a worthy debate.  I wish there were more that concentrated on the sound coming out of the systems rather than other capabilities.  I like the idea of FLASH vs DIMM.  I’m not sure I’d pay an arm and a leg for it.

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Posted on: February 02, 2013 @ 10:14 PM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Cutdawgent is a known troll with an axe to grind, so let’s leave his worthless rant out of the discussion.

Clarification - I am not an employee of Yamaha. I am a sound designer
who does sound design as a consultant for Yamaha, Korg, Steinberg, Dave
Smith Instruments, Soniccouture, Native Instruments, and many others. I
have contributed programming to every Yamaha synth since 1991. I am also
DCP Productions, my sound libraries for the Motif series workstations
are available at the Shop on this site.

Phil Clendeninn (Bad Mister) is not “just” a Yamaha employee. He is
a product specialist for Yamaha with a long list of credentials including audio engineering for well-known (famous) artists.

Moving on to whether the XF is “worth it” - well, I can vouch for the
difference in sound quality. If you put an XS and XF side by side, hooked them up to the same console and high-quality speakers, made sure the sound level between both was exactly the same, and called up the same performance or voice on both, you can clearly hear the improvement in sonic quality of the XF. It has better D to A converters, and the difference is not subtle.

With the XS, when you load a voice that uses a “new sample”, so to speak,and then load another voice that uses that same sample, the XS just loads the sample again, because it doesn’t know the sample is already loaded.The XF does know if a sample has already been loaded, and if it detects that a voice references an already loaded sample, it will only load the voice data and not the sample data again. That is a big deal if you are loading multiple voices one at a a time from different sound libraries and are not sure if the voices share the same sample data.

The inclusion of flashboard capability on the XF is not to be underestimated. Yes, it takes awhile to “burn” sample data onto the flashboard, but once the data is there, it acts just as the factory
sample waveform data acts - it’s always there, always available, whether
the XF is powered on or not, it doesn’t “vanish” like sample data
does when the XS is turned off.

The XF comes with 128MB of RAM pre-installed. The XS comes with none.
Why is this important? I can give you one huge reason - live gigs. I am
the tour keyboard tech for David Foster, and we insist on XF’s for all
the shows, because othewrwise, I have to bring DIMMs modules with me
and take the time to install them in XS’s when we set up the show, and then take the time to remove them when we are tearing down the stage (and tear-down is incredibly frenzied and hectic, and I don’t always havethe luxury of getting time to remove the modules, which leaves me having to contact the backline company later and ask them to remove them and ship them back to me).

The LCD screen on the XF is higher contrast, easier to see, and has improved graphics as compared to the XS.

You have to ask yourself if it’s “worth it” to spend the money on the
XF which is Yamaha’s current Motif. If you want the best version of the
Motif, then yes the XF is a clear choice. If you don’t care about that,
or your budget is limited, a used XS may be a better move for you.

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Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 01:47 AM
pedro5557
Total Posts:  24
Joined  08-24-2009
status: Regular

Hi
generally speaking I think that all opinions must be respected,specially when they are different from our. I think that the XF is an improvement but not a revolution respect the XS.
Same number of tracks, same number of insertion effect, same sequencer capacity and also same sound quality if you connect the system via Digital Out Connector.
Thanks
Pedro

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