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Viewing topic "Adding a crescendo to horn voices"

     
Posted on: May 27, 2009 @ 11:36 AM
Kevin May
Total Posts:  15
Joined  01-11-2009
status: Regular

I have been trying to add crescendo’s to horn voices. In the manual it mentions it on page 184. I have no trouble finding where to do it only getting it to actually effect the voice.

On page 92, it shows the job mode screen and tells what you can do but nowhere does it tell the actual steps.

I have a trumpet part on CH8 for the first 4 bars. I have set it up like this and nothing happens. It says “ Completed”

TR 08 001:1:00 - 4:1:00
Velocity range -127

What I think this is saying DeCrescendo track 8 measures 1-4 -127

What am I missing. Have I missed it in the manual somewhere, or am I not interpreting the screen correctly?

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Posted on: May 28, 2009 @ 10:00 AM
Machuson
Total Posts:  168
Joined  07-09-2008
status: Pro

so the manual says:

“Settings greater than 0 produce a crescendo, and settings less than 0 produce a decrescendo. A setting of 0 produces no effect.”

therefore, if you want a Crescendo you will need to use positive values (e.g +40)

another thing is that this job name is a little misleading… it does not increase or decrease “volume”, it changes the velocity of notes over a range you select

so if your horns are playing one note or chord that starts at 001:1:00 and the gate time is four measures there will be no change because there are no more notes after the first chord to apply the velocity changes to

as an alternative, you can create a crescendo manually through overdub recording by moving the volume slider while recording

you can also add/edit the volume control changes in the event list yourself (see manual pg 182+224)

just be sure to check the volume setting at the beginning of the crescendo so that you can return the volume to the that level when the crescendo is finished

it can be a little tricky, so you really have to pay attention to what you’re doing

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Posted on: May 28, 2009 @ 06:26 PM
Bad_Mister
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Joined  07-30-2002
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Crescendo as a function in the sequencer is working on velocity (which means it should be applied to a musical phrase with a series of notes)…

from a previous post on the subject..............................

The “Crescendo” function works on a series of played notes… (as opposed to a brass “sforzando” or a brass swell - which is an increase in volume during a held tone). The Crescendo function is increasing the velocity value - which does nothing during a note but each successive note will be increased in velocity (and therefore will be louder in turn). Crescendo is a musical term and calls for the part to be played with more intensity (I don’t think the originators of the musical term knew about electronic instruments) so they meant to play with more vigor. Velocity would be the more correct translation of Crescendo.

Velocity has a single value that occurs at note-on, you cannot increase or decrease it during a note.

If you want to increase the level of a held note you would use the MIDI Control Change message cc011 Expression. Expression is the increase or decrease in performed volume - and it can be increased during a hled note. If you do not have an FC7 sweep pedal, you can use the Edit Job called “Create Continuous Data”. See page 186 in the Owner’s Manual

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Posted on: May 28, 2009 @ 06:54 PM
Machuson
Total Posts:  168
Joined  07-09-2008
status: Pro

well, I was kind of right…

man, don’t you just love how BM just blows right in like you never even said anything!

heh, I guess that’s better than getting called out directly!

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Posted on: May 30, 2009 @ 02:23 AM
Bad_Mister
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No, sorry… you were right on the right path, I just felt a couple of things needed to be clarified - so I found an old post of mine on the subject. For example, EXPRESSION cc011 is a much more efficient controller to use for the purpose of changing the performing volume (than say cc007 Channel Volume). Because cc011 works within the maximum limit set by the Channel Volume.

The original poster did not mention what type of phrase was attempting to be altered… whether it was held notes or an actual musical phrase containing many different note-ons. While the musical term Crescendo to a keyboard player can be quite different on other instruments. The main point was that VELOCITY as a controller is what you have for a keyboard interface… one of the reaons VL technology was so much better for horns was that the velocity a note was struck had nothing to do with its volume - this is so much more 1:1 with what happens with any horn.

How hard you strike the keys of a trumpet does not translate at all to the audio volume output.. How hard you strike the keys of a saxophone has nothing to do with the volume… etc.

So keyboards are (at best) a weird controller for horns - sometimes keyboard players don’t appreciate this difference… crescendo to a horn player is quite a different animal than it is to a piano (Percussion) player… I did not mean to ignore your input, just add to it.

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Posted on: June 01, 2009 @ 11:16 AM
Kevin May
Total Posts:  15
Joined  01-11-2009
status: Regular

Thanks for all the input.

Being a Sax player first I understand the difference you talk about BM. I have been using Jmaths approach and it works real well for me as I like using “Hands on Techniques” to produce things. even if I don’t get the swell quite right it gives a set of numbers to edit so I can tweak the whole section after I have all the parts down. Love my MO8!

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