Hi there,

Recently I started to create user arps on my ES7 by putting midi files (twiddly bits) ‘to user arp’. In the manual (and on the forum as far as I could see) the explanation on te three convert types isn’t too generous… i.e. I need some more grip on these three types ... (normal, fix, orgnotes).

For a bass line you should use ‘orgnote’, for a guitar (or piano?) line you should use ‘normal’. Maybe it’s my poor english, but it’s not clear to me what the exact difference is.

Than there’s setting the ‘root note’ when using the ‘orgnotes’ type convertion. When I have a bass line in C maj. I guess the root note would be a C. But than I read on the forum that you should use the ‘lowest note’ in the arp pattern (this could be a G or an E). So, what’s the right ‘root note’?

Some further explanation would be appreciated very much!!
Thanks in advance,

Michiel

For a bass line you should use ‘orgnote’, for a guitar (or piano?) line you should use ‘normal’. Maybe it’s my poor english, but it’s not clear to me what the exact difference is.

It is not your English… let’s see if I can elaborate.

A lot of it has to do with the very important difference between regular sequencing and creating a good arpeggio. While it is true that most everything you play to the sequencer can be “put” to an arpeggio, it is also true that there are exceptions and there is the potential that what you play may not make a good arpeggio.

That being said, lets talk about some of the basic rules about arpeggios and good arpeggios.
Rule: an arpeggio is typically assigned to a single instrument
Rule: an arpeggio is typically restricted to one tone center (key)

So let’s take a Bass Arpeggio - apply these two basic rules. The phrase will be assigned to just the bass, and it will necessarily be in one key. Since the bass line is a phrase and is going to typically mono phonic (no chords) we can predict that the only thing that changes when you trigger the bass arp with a new key is that it Transposes.

Fixed Note - you understand means any trigger note will cause the same exact arpeggio notes to play. Great for drums and percussion where no note transposing is ever going to be required.

Original Note - just like the “fixed note” arpeggio EXCEPT when you play “F” the bass line plays in “F” and when you play “Bb” the same exact bass line plays only it is now transposed up a musical 4th to the key of “Bb”

Now let’s consider a guitar (or piano?) any chordal instrument - Simply transposing the notes up or down (in parallel) like the “Org Note” Convert type, will not always work for chords. While the “F” in the music might be a Minor 7 chord, the “Bb” might be a Dominant 7 Chord.

parallel movement will not always work for chord voicing. And while it will work for phases that stay in a single tonal center.

The arpeggiator has four tracks so that you can add different rhythmic components. If you listen to any good strumming arpeggio or guitar picking arpeggio, you will hear guitar “noises” that are apart of the arpeggio. They have their own rhythm and occur according to data stored in that arpeggio type. So you can see how a single arpeggio pattern might use TRACK 1 for the four notes that would define a CHORD QUALITY, and Track 2 might just be a finger zing noise that happens every 4th measure, and the Track 3 might be the raking noise of a an upstroke (which again would have a unique rhythm)

So the 4 tracks you in the PUT TRACK TO ARP function allows you to create a single arpeggio pattern that has more details (like noises and sound fx)

The NORMAL convert type takes the up to four notes you play simultaneously and allows you to build a chord. Say you play C Major 7 (C-E-G-B) in a rhythmic fashion of 4 measures. When you convert that to an arp using NORMAL, it will play like a ‘normal’ arpeggio - what that means is any four notes you voice when this ARP TYPE is assigned will play the four notes you trigger.

If you trigger C-E-G-B - you will hear what you played
If you trigger C-Eb-G-Bb you will hear a C Minor 7
If you play C- C#-D-D# you will hear a cluster of four notes

ORG NOTE and ROOT:
As to the ROOT note - that is the note you want to trigger the line at its original pitch. You musically know what the ROOT is. If your bass line is in the key of Bb - that is the Root - which “Bb” do you want to trigger in order to have the original line play as sounded originally. Usually this is in the left hand - low on the keyboard.

Hi All,

I created an user arp pattern with a bass sound of 3 notes (D, F, and A in a slow style).  Using CONVERT TYPE = org notes while converting my Bass pattern into an user ARP with my lowest bass note of D-1. it works out fine with normal chords such as Dm, Gm, C, F. However, I want it to play a Dmajor7 note with a C note while chording D, F#, A, upper C/lower C in the chord, it does not sound like an actual Dmajor7.  It sounds so differently and weird. 
I did try the CONVERT TYPE = NORMAL, but the APR does work out as well.

Now, I also tested the preset ARP pattern supplied by the MOTIF XF. I did try to play Dmajor7 notes (D, F#, A, upper C/lower C) in the chord, but it does not sound right either.  Also, when press lower C, D, F#, A, the arp sounds different from D, F#, A, upper C.

How can I get the MOTIF XF to play Major7 chord, Major9, Minor7 chord, minor7 chord...etc (different from basis chord notes) played after converting the user pattern into an user ARP, regardless which notes I press, either lower C, D, F#, A or D, F#, A, upper C.

Many thanks

I created an user arp pattern with a bass sound of 3 notes (D, F, and A in a slow style). 

...

However, I want it to play a Dmajor7 note with a C note while chording D, F#, A, upper C/lower C in the chord, it does not sound like an actual Dmajor7

You say you are recording a Bass line. Well, a bass line does not sound CHORDS. It plays typically single notes. So there is that.

Also if you are attempting to play a chord with a 7th (be it a major7, a dominant7 or a minor7) you need to have four notes, not 3 notes, in your source chord.

Next I have no idea how you are thinking that a 3 note bass line is going to outline the chord you say is “Dmajor7”???  D-F#-A-C? where is the C#???? Did you mean D7 (dominant) D7/C… Either way that is never going to happen, not with an arpeggio.

My suggestion: Use the sequencer and record exactly what you want to happen. The art of arps is (completely) eluding you.

----
Try this to show you how the number of notes and the rhythm you play is more important than the notes you play.
Go to a blank Pattern
On track 1 play the following four notes simultaneously: C-E-G-B (the lowest note being middle “C”
Simultaneously means play them together as a CHORD, (not a bass line, but as a CHORD).

By playing a four note chord, you can now have it define the 7 when you convert it to an arp. Until you do you can only define triads, naturally. TRIAD = 3 note chords.

Try playing four measures of this C Major 7 chord in a Bossa Nova type rhythm.  But as I say in the DVD: It is more about the rhythm of what you play than the notes.

Go to [JOB]
Select [F5] TRACK
Select JOB 07: Put Track to Arpeggio

Set the measure range 001-005
Set the ARP NO. to a blank ARP number
Set the ARP TR1 = TR 1
Set the CONVERT TYPE = ORG NOTES
Set the ORIGINAL ROOT NOTE = C3
Press [ENTER] to execute

Once this is an arpeggio assign it to a Guitar VOICE
Call up the Acoustic Guitar sound:  PRE2: D04 Sao Paulo
Assign the USER ARP you just created
Now if you play a four note trigger chord you can trigger Major7s, Minor7s, Dominant7s, Diminished7, etc.

Now when you assign this to a VOICE as a USER arp, you can play any four note chord and have that chord quality playback correctly… because you have 4 notes you can define the 7th’s quality.

You originally recorded a C Major 7 chord. That is the SOURCE chord
...if you now finger an “F Major 7” - the arp instructs the keyboard to transpose everything up a musical fourth.
...if you play a “B Minor 7” - the arp instructs the keyboard to transpose the SOURCE chord down a musical half-step, flat the 3rd, and flat the 7th
... if you play “Bbm7b5” - the arp says lower the source chord a whole step, flat the 3rd, flat the 5th, and flat the 7th.
... if you play a “C dim7” - the arp instructions are to flat the 3rd, flat the 5th, and double flat the 7th.
And so on.

Since your Bass line (again) would be recorded separately, you can give it separate instructions as to what to play. If you want to have the Bass play a C while the Guitar plays a DbMajor7, you would need to control these from two different regions of the keyboard… using two separate Voices and two separate ARPS.

See your other thread for these same basic rules and instructions.

Hi Bad_mister,

Thanks for your help.  I will try at home tonight.

One more question.  How can I same a new ARP and store it on the motif?  When creating an ARP, I enter “SLOW” name with DrPc, categories respectively) in the ARP name field.  I can assign the created ARP to a SF button in VOICE/PERFORMANCE mode but I do not see the “SLOW” arp listed under that category after conversion. 

Any idea?

Thanks

You say you are recording a Bass line. Well, a bass line does not sound CHORDS. It plays typically single notes. So there is that.

Also if you are attempting to play a chord with a 7th (be it a major7, a dominant7 or a minor7) you need to have four notes, not 3 notes, in your source chord.

Thanks for your help.  I will try at home tonight.

Perhaps my wording is not clear. 

What I really meant is that I played 3 Bass notes, Dm, F, A for Dm chord in a pattern in 2 measures and convert the pattern into an user ARP.  I understand that I could not make a Major7 or minor7 chord since they are all 4-note chords.

So, if I want to have a “bridge chord, D7” from Dm -> D7 -> Gm, which notes and how many notes (3 or 4) I should play while recording so that after conversion into an ARP, I can press appropriate key(s) for it to sound D7 or Dm7...etc. (any 4-note chords)?

[...Since your Bass line (again) would be recorded separately, you can give it separate instructions as to what to play. If you want to have the Bass play a C while the Guitar plays a DbMajor7, you would need to control these from two different regions of the keyboard… using two separate Voices and two separate ARPS.] Not quite clear how I could play a C note with a Bass ARP if only 3 or 4 notes were used in an user ARP after conversion. 

[...See your other thread for these same basic rules and instructions] Can you please lead me to the link?

One more question.  How can I save a new ARP and store it on the MOTIF?  When creating an ARP, I enter “SLOW” name in the ARP No field with DrPc and in the ARP Main and Sub fields respectively. Note that I can still assign the created ARP to a SF button in VOICE/PERFORMANCE mode but I do not see the “SLOW” arp listed under that category after conversion. 

Any idea?

Many thanks

Here is YOUR post

Remember your arp will be listed in the USER ARP area (not the PRE (preset) area.

more here

Bad_Mister - 11 May 2012 05:51 PM

Here are YOUR posts

the link above does not work.  Please advice.