Can someone comment on the poly issue with the MO6/8?  I see that it’s 62-64 note poly.  Are owners running into issues with maxing poly during normal play, and when recording songs and patterns?

At the moment it’s a toss up for me between the MO6 and the new Roland Juno-G.  The Juno offers a bit more for less, but I’m very familiar with the Yamaha OS. 

Poly IS an issue for me though.  I used to own the Yamaha EX-7 (a synth the Motif series derived from), and it had 64 note poly, but I was ALWAYS maxing that out with very basic patterns.  I also know several that dumped their original Motifs due to the poly as well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Squeak

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

If you layer 2 voices (each consisting of 3 elements) then each single key you press “eats” 6 note of polyphony. Since you have 10 fingers: 6*10 = 60 notes of polyphony. Nothing left to spare!!!!

If your layered voices use more than 6 elements overall, and/or they have a long decay after release (i.e.: a sustained piano note) then you are in trouble even when playing with only 3 or 4 fingers (= 1 chord)!!!!!!!

I play layered “church organ” patches, often made by 8 elements per note. If (using 2 hands) I play a chord with more than 8 notes I get in trouble: 8*8=64. And I am still lucky because organs do not have significant sustain!!!!

So 64 notes polyphony for non trivial LIVE performances is an issue.

If you look at the MO6 GM bank you will notice that the voices are made with few elements (1 or 2) and usually without insertion effects, so they do not sound as good as they could. That’s because GM voices are supposed to be used in playing back MIDI files (= multitimbral performances with many voices playing at the same time) and in that context polyphony and insertion effects ARE scarce resources.

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Well, that is not quite correct. You do not use polyphony unless a Voice Element is actually sounding - for example, the Voice called “Vintage 74” which is a Rhodes Electric Piano. It is a four Element Voice, but never more than 1 Element is sounding at a time.
Element 1 responds to velocities between 1-63
Element 2 responds to velocities between 64-102
Element 3 responds to velocities between 103-122
Element 4 responds to velocities between 123-127

So just because a Voice has 3 or 4 Elements does not mean it uses polyphony like fighterrx believes. It is a bit more complex than that…

So for every note you play on the Vintage ‘74 electric piano, only 1 note of polyphony is used.

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

I understand how poly is assinged and so forth, I was just wanting some input from those who have the MO’s and how the poly is working out for them.

My concern is that the number of elements per voice on the MO will either match or exceed those found on my older Yamaha EX-7 (the MO of the 90’s).  With the EX-7 I maxed the poly “constantly” with patterns.  It was quite frustrating to create a pattern of drums, bass, and when adding the pad or strings the poly blows out.  That’s just a few tracks.

I know there were MANY complaints with the poly on the original Motif as well.  The poly is an issue with me.  That’s why I’ve also been considering the Juno-G.  It has 128 voice poly.  Plus it’s features actually compare very well to the MO’s and even surpass it in several areas, and it’s $200 cheaper.  I like the MO’s sounds, and set up, but if the 64 note poly is limiting, then it won’t work for my needs.

Squeak

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

“So just because a Voice has 3 or 4 Elements does not mean it uses polyphony like fighterrx believes. It is a bit more complex than that...”

Certainly I knew that!!
My example was about “church organ” voices; since organs are NOT velocity sensitive it does not make any sense (if one is concerned about simulating the Real Thing) to make a velocity split of the voice elements. It does make much more sense to layer simultaneusly sounding elements.

The situation is even more complex than Bad_Mister said: in the MO/Motif waverom there are some “stereo multisamples” that take 2 notes of polyphony for each element. If you use such elements the “real” polyphony is reduced even faster than you could expect!!

But I would like to pose Bad_Mister a technical question:

If a voice is composed of, let us say, 2 elements; the first element could be sustained indefinitely while the key is pressed, while the second could go to silence rapidly (percussive sound). In this case, even if I keep the key pressed, may the polyphony associated with the element already gone to silence be reused?

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Well my concern is when you’re recording patterns and your tracks use “chords”.  This is when you see poly eaten up faster than a T-Bone steak at a Jenny Craig camp! 

I like that they carried over some of those great voices from the ES, but I’m worried about the 64 note poly with those larger voices.  Too bad the MO doesn’t accept the Yamaha expansion boards.  Then you could upgrade your poly with one of those puppies

Squeak

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Why not just buy the “Motif ES 6/7/8” (128 note polyphony +), and eliminate the worry about calculations all together!
Ever since I’ve been doing this “Pro Audio/Studio” thing, I’ve found that it’s a lot easier to just shell out the extra cash and get what you know is going to work (and work for you) the first time, and you will save yourself a lot of time, headaches, and $$$ later on!!
I use my MO/8 mostly for recording, so it’s perfect for what I need it for.
64 note polyphony for me is “more” than enough!
-OctaveMan

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

“Why not just buy the “Motif ES 6/7/8” (128 note polyphony +), and eliminate the worry about calculations all together! “

Because for most people money is definitely an issue and the Motif ES 6 costs 70% MORE than the MO6.

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Yes, money usually is an issue for most. I wasn’t implying that it wasn’t.
What I was trying to convey was an alternative, the fact that if your looking for something specific (quality), “sometimes” it’s just better to make the sacrifice than to settle for less.
I find this to be true in a lot of areas in life. (not just music)
I have equipment in my studio that instead of getting an alternative “now”, I waited till I could save the cash to get exactly what I wanted/needed, and I’m so glad that I did.
Just trying to help.
Peace
-OctaveMan

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

If you are a gigging musician - then simply calculate the difference in price in terms of how many gigs it will take to make up the difference - remember you are going to keep this thing for more than a year. Sometimes when you do that, you wind up getting what you want rather than trying to save the money. Who doesn’t want to save money - but if the difference is four or five gigs across a year… go for it!

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

I’m not a gigging musician anymore.  Haven’t gigged in years, and I don’t think I even have the strength for it anymore /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt= Between my everyday routine, and my wife and daughter I’m worn out by the end of the day /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

For people like me (who don’t gig), there isn’t really a dollar amount return on such investments.  I considered the Motif ES, and nearly wet my pants every time I play the beast, but it’s $2,000 (YIKES).  Can’t justify that amount of money on a synth to my wife--I like the bed I sleep in quite well /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

I’m thinking of buying the original Motif.  I figured the original with an expansion board will give me a good sound set, plus the expansion board will boost the poly.  I’m thinking a Motif (orginal) with the XG expansion board.  That will add the XG set plus 32 notes more poly bringing the total count up to 94.  It’s still under 128, but way better than 62 or 64. 

Plus the MO6 has no sampling or room for any expansion.  The original Motif will give me the sampler, plus expansion options.

Squeak

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

The PLG100-XG is a very different expansion than the PLG150 board with some unique restrictions related to it as well. Among these is that fact that since it is a multi-timbral board, it can only be accessed in the Motif’s multi-timbral modes (Song and Pattern modes). Before you make your decision, I’d suggest you check out Bad_Mister’s PLG100-XG Getting Started Guide from the Motif (classic) Behind the Manual page.

Below is a small excerpt from this article:

http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/250013-Image1.jpg

Read this article carefully and if you have further questions, post them up here.

Regards,

Brad Weber

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Brad,
Thanks for the reply.  To be honest it wouldn’t bother me one bit only being able to access those sounds in pattern or song mode.  That’s really where I’d use those sounds.  I’ve owned several boards in the past that had the XG sound set and even used the XG Works sequencing software.  Those voices (in my opinion) are only worthy as backing voices and not ideal lead voices /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Squeak

I’ll read the info in the links you provided as well.  Again, thanks.

Re: MO6-Poly Issues??????

Brad, just read the docs.. Good source of info there, and wow! turns out that route would have been a bad option for me:) Thanks for pointing that doc out to me.

Squeak