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Viewing topic "Bizzare system effect problem"

   
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Posted on: February 21, 2021 @ 10:53 AM
PeteParsons
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In song mode, track 16 is not responding to my chorus adjustment. In fact, no chorus signal is getting thru. The reverb works fine. I tested every track and all respond to my chorus adjustments except track 16 which is a user drum voice. What the heck??

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Posted on: February 21, 2021 @ 11:12 AM
PeteParsons
Total Posts:  135
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status: Pro

I’m at a loss. I copied track 16 to 15 and the chorus doesn’t work even though it worked prior to me copying the track. The reverb works but not the chorus on the system effects. It is a user drum, latin percussion.

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Posted on: February 21, 2021 @ 03:52 PM
5pinDIN
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Chorus Send (and Reverb Send) levels are set on a per-Part basis. It’s likely that Chorus Send is set very low or at 0(zero) for the Part in question.

From Song mode…
Press [MIXING] > [EDIT] > [15](or whichever)
Press [F1]Voice > [SF2]Output
Set “Chorus Send” to the desired non-zero level.

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Posted on: February 22, 2021 @ 11:57 AM
PeteParsons
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I’ll try that. What causes a part to have the output reduced to zero or low gain? Working with the ES for many years plus doing about 20 songs/patterns on the XS so far, I’ve never encountered this before.

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Posted on: February 22, 2021 @ 03:41 PM
5pinDIN
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PeteParsons - 22 February 2021 11:57 AM

I’ll try that. What causes a part to have the output reduced to zero or low gain? Working with the ES for many years plus doing about 20 songs/patterns on the XS so far, I’ve never encountered this before.

The output level (gain) is not reduced. I’m referring to Chorus, as per your question.

The System Effect Send default settings for an initialized Part are:
Reverb 12
Chorus 0

They’re set that way because applying the System Effects at uniformly high levels to all Parts in a Mix is likely to be inappropriate for at least a few of the Parts. Adjust each Part’s Sends as necessary. 

By the way, if you want to have the System Effects from a Voice in a Part become those for all the Parts of a Mix, that can be done. See Copying the Voice Common Edit settings to the Mixing (Copy Voice) - [SF2]Voice on page 237 of the XS Owner’s Manual.

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 09:19 AM
PeteParsons
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Nope, still not working. In essence, what you had me do was the equivalent of turning up the chorus knob on the mixing page. Whatever number you set in the output page is reflective of the number on the mixing page chorus knob and vice versa. No chorus comes through at all. System effects shouldn’t be selective the way they can be on insertion effects when dealing with drums where you have to select the note on which you can apply effects.

I’ll check out that last thing you posted to see if I can figure this out.

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 09:52 AM
PeteParsons
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status: Pro

I tried the copying voice common on page 237 which did not help. For some reason this particular user drum voice rejects the chorus. As I mentioned earlier, even if I move it to a track where chorus works, it still negates the chorus function. My conclusion so far is for some reason, this particular voice doesn’t allow chorus to function. Like I said, bizzare!

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 11:29 AM
5pinDIN
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PeteParsons - 23 February 2021 09:19 AM

Nope, still not working. In essence, what you had me do was the equivalent of turning up the chorus knob on the mixing page. Whatever number you set in the output page is reflective of the number on the mixing page chorus knob and vice versa.

Yes, when SELECTED PART CONTROL is set to TONE 2 the CHORUS knob will adjust the Send level. I suggested making the setting via the Output display rather than the knob because it allows you to see the setting numbers.

 

PeteParsons -

No chorus comes through at all. System effects shouldn’t be selective the way they can be on insertion effects when dealing with drums where you have to select the note on which you can apply effects.

Nevertheless, the System Effect Send settings are on a per-Part basis, and that applies to all of the Parts, including those where the Voice is a Drum kit.

 

PeteParsons -

I’ll check out that last thing
you posted to see if I can figure this out.

Note that I said “By the way, if you want to have the System Effects from a Voice in a Part become those for all the Parts of a Mix, that can be done.” Doing that won’t fix a situation where the Chorus System Effect isn’t what you expect.

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 11:32 AM
5pinDIN
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PeteParsons - 23 February 2021 09:52 AM

I tried the copying voice common on page 237 which did not help. For some reason this particular user drum voice rejects the chorus. As I mentioned earlier, even if I move it to a track where chorus works, it still negates the chorus function. My conclusion so far is for some reason, this particular voice doesn’t allow chorus to function. Like I said, bizzare!

I’d like to help, so please tell us which Drum Voice you’re having trouble with.

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 01:07 PM
PeteParsons
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PeteParsons -

I’ll check out that last thing
you posted to see if I can figure this out.

Note that I said “By the way, if you want to have the System Effects from a Voice in a Part become those for all the Parts of a Mix, that can be done.” Doing that won’t fix a situation where the Chorus System Effect isn’t what you expect.

Sorry I misread this one. It’s good to know. I’ll get you details on that voice.

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Posted on: February 23, 2021 @ 10:49 PM
PeteParsons
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Joined  08-21-2020
status: Pro

Ok....this is what I’ve determined. I’m using Latin Percussion which is Pre Dr C16. Because I needed more volume out of this voice, I increased the volume in voice edit so it became a User Dr. If it was a normal voice it would have become a Mix Voice.

If I change it back to Pre Dr C16, the chorus effect is working. However when it becomes a User Dr, chorus stops working. So I tested every User Dr in my category search and every UserDr does not allow chorus to function. So the issue is for some reason when a normal drum voice is converted to a User Dr voice, the chorus stops working although reverb continues to work.

So the question is why???

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Posted on: February 24, 2021 @ 06:09 AM
5pinDIN
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PeteParsons - 23 February 2021 10:49 PM

[...]

So the question is why???

That’s a good question, but unfortunately I’m unable to verify the behavior you’ve described. Any Preset Drum Voice that I store at a User Drum location retains all of its functionality, including the Chorus settings.

Some notes:
1) The majority of the Drum Voices have the Chorus level set to 0(zero).
2) All of the PDR Voices have Knob Control Assign set to TONE 1
3) Many of the PDR Voices have knob ASSIGN 2 (AS2) set to control Chorus Send to a (typically small) degree. AS2 will function in that manner only when the knobs are set to TONE 1. The XS Play display indicates controller assignment near the bottom of the screen.
4) Knob assignment can be set either by editing or by using the [SELECTED PART CONTROL] button. STORE changes if you want to retain them.
5) If knob assignment is changed to TONE 2, then Knob 8 becomes CHORUS control. The knob will do nothing until it is first turned to the stored level, which in most cases is 0(zero) - the display shows a red arrow as an indicator. Once turned all the way down (CCW), the knob will then have a full range of control.
6) In Song mode the Knob Control Assign setting defaults to ARP FX. None of the knobs will affect Chorus Send level with that setting. Changing that to TONE 1 or TONE 2 will permit Chorus level to be controlled, as per above notes.

Just for curiosity I looked for a Drum Voice where other than the knobs controlled Chorus Send. I found PDR B14 House Compressed Kit, which uses the MW as the Chorus controller. When storing that Drum Voice into a UDR location or using it in a Part of a Song, knob assignment and setting of Chorus Send level is not an issue. The MW is set to +30 Depth in Controller Assignment for the Voice, and it works as expected wherever the Voice is used.

Without actually knowing what you’re doing, and based on my own experiences, I can only surmise that what you’re experiencing is related to a combination of knob assignment and Chorus level settings. My notes #5 and #6 might be particularly worth looking into.

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Posted on: February 24, 2021 @ 08:02 AM
PeteParsons
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I haven’t gone to my XS yet, but I’m not sure what you are referring to when you talk about knobs being set to tone one and two. Also this is happening in song mode. I need to go to voice mode and check out if chorus works there.

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Posted on: February 24, 2021 @ 08:20 AM
PeteParsons
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5) If knob assignment is changed to TONE 2, then Knob 8 becomes CHORUS control. The knob will do nothing until it is first turned to the stored level, which in most cases is 0(zero) - the display shows a red arrow as an indicator. Once turned all the way down (CCW), the knob will then have a full range of control.
6) In Song mode the Knob Control Assign setting defaults to ARP FX. None of the knobs will affect Chorus Send level with that setting. Changing that to TONE 1 or TONE 2 will permit Chorus level to be controlled, as per above notes.

5. I’m not sure what knob your referring to regarding knob 8. Are you talking about the knobs over the sliders? Again, I’m not at the keyboard. And by tone 1 and tone 2, I’m guessing you are referring to the button that has the 3 settings to toggle between settings for those 8 knobs. Correct? And from past experience, I don’t ever remember having to go to the chorus setting within the knobs if you go to the mix page in song mode and adjust chorus from there.

6.Same thing applies here. When working in song mode, I always change my chorus levels from the Mix page and don’t use the knobs.

I’ll be on the XS in a few hours and will see if the physical knobs have any affect on chorus. My guess is if it won’t function from the Mix screen, then I’m not expecting it to as well from the control knobs. I’m very curious to see if I can get chorus to work on the User Dr from the Voice mode.

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Posted on: February 24, 2021 @ 09:35 AM
PeteParsons
Total Posts:  135
Joined  08-21-2020
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Because it was driving me nuts, I jumped on the XS right away. I went to voice mode and the same thing happens.....here is the catch.....Only on certain voices. FYI I verified what you were referring to regarding the tone button (didn’t know it was referred to as that) and the control knobs (chorus being #8).

Here are my findings. I didn’t go through all the user drums, just the first 10 in Voice mode. I used the standard user drums that are already set in the XS, not the ones I created.

First the ones that chorus worked.

A03 Stereo GM
A04 Rock St1
A05 Jazz kit
A06 Rock Multi
A09 Hip Hop
A10 Hip Hop 3

Now the ones that didn’t work. I even went into effects and tried multiple different effects. I also tried the reverb to chorus knob which is set to 0 initially. Nothing works.

A01 Powered Standard
A02 Dry Standard
A07 Latin Percussion
A08 Percussion.

Reverb works, chorus does not. However when these kits are in the PreDr category, chorus does work. It’s only when they become UserDr, it doesn’t work.

I haven’t gone through the whole UserDr list, but if you check these 10 voices, you will see what I mean. I’m going to create my own drum kit. I’m going to name it Bizzaro Kit after this issue. I’d love to hear Yamaha’s explanation.

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Posted on: February 24, 2021 @ 12:41 PM
5pinDIN
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Based on the above, it appears that the UDR Voices A01-A10 in your XS are as follows:
A01 Powered Standard
A02 Dry Standard
A03 Stereo GM
A04 Rock St1
A05 Jazz kit
A06 Rock Multi
A07 Latin Percussion
A08 Percussion.
A09 Hip Hop
A10 Hip Hop 3

Although they may be copies from the PDR banks, they aren’t the first ten there. I guess you chose only certain ones.

I checked PDR A01 Power Standard Kit 1, then saved it to a UDR location, and placed it in a Song Part. In UDR Voice mode, Chorus Send level could be brought up from 0. In Mix Play, “Cho Send” could be brought up from 0. No problem was evident - the effect was quite obvious.

I not only checked this on my XS, just for the heck of it I did the same on my XF. No problem there either.

Sorry, but since I can’t duplicate what you’re reporting, I have no further suggestions.

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