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Viewing topic "Moving lead sounds into a performance"

     
Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 08:59 AM
DallasXanadu
Total Posts:  72
Joined  05-20-2015
status: Experienced

Does anybody know the best steps to take in order to duplicate a voice when moving into a performance/song? I know to select “P.w/voice” before selecting the voice, and this does maintain some of the original parameters of the original. But I have a hard time specifically bringing lead sounds into a mix. I start with replicating the chorus and reverb from the original, but I can’t seem to get delay to even register on some voices. And for instance, I’m trying to get a lead called “Feeling” - not sure if it’s a Yamaha preset or a 3rd-party voice into a performance. There’s a bit of a “swell” on the attack in the original voice that I can’t seem to get into the performance. And when I match the delay effect setting to that of the original voice, I get no delay. This is probably my biggest frustration overall with this machine, which I otherwise love and have played the hell out of. I get why they designed it not to bring everything into “the recording studio”, but I wish the option was there to have everything translate when that’s what you want.

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Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 09:14 AM
DallasXanadu
Total Posts:  72
Joined  05-20-2015
status: Experienced

I’ve been able tweak it enough to get the “swell” and just about everything else. Delay still not registering however, even though I’ve got it set to 4-beat Echo TempoDlySt.

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Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 11:34 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3112
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

The John Melas Performance Editor contains the functionality you are requesting.

From the Performance Editor description:

“Voice Copier utility: a voice can be copied to a performance part together with all its original parameters, so that it sounds in performance mode exactly as it sounded in voice mode.”

You can get to the Performance Editor page on the Melas site via This Link

I believe the Voice Copier feature is available for free in the demo mode of the program...but can’t say for sure, as I purchased the Melas utilities, and never used them in demo mode.

I definitely recommend the Melas tools.

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Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 12:02 PM
5pinDIN
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DallasXanadu - 17 December 2020 09:14 AM

I’ve been able tweak it enough to get the “swell” and just about everything else. Delay still not registering however, even though I’ve got it set to 4-beat Echo TempoDlySt.

It’s hard to tell exactly what you might be doing. However, it seems you’re making things more difficult than they need to be.

For others interested in this, “Feeling” is PRE5:50/D02 on the MOXF, as well as the MOX and Motif XS/XF.

Select the Performance.
Press [JOB] > [F3]COPY > [SF2]VOICE
Set the location of the Voice (PRE5:050 in this case)
(Should be directed to Current Performance)
Place an “x” in the boxes of the effects you want to copy
(Rev, Cho, MEQ, MFX)
Press [ENTER]

You still have to manually set the SEND levels to the same as those in the Voice.
From Part Edit mode…
Select the Part (1~4)
Press [F2]OUTPUT > [SF2]EF SEND
Set ChoSend and RevSend levels to what they are in the Voice (16)

STORE

See the MOXF Reference Manual, pages 70-71 and 66, for details.

Or try what cmayhle suggested.

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Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 03:05 PM
DallasXanadu
Total Posts:  72
Joined  05-20-2015
status: Experienced

Your way does sound infinitely easier, but I’ve never been able to get that method to work. I get to the copy screen and select the voice I want to copy. The destination of “current” doesn’t seem changeable however. When I hit enter twice, nothing changes. Which part out of the 4 options is supposed to locate it? Whenever I try it, none of the four parts are different. Not sure if the link to the pic will work, but I’ll try,

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuXx5b-o3JiUkNVcY-Xm1JJ7I64o1g

(looks like clicking on the link doesn’t work, but if you copy and paste directly into your browser location it does)

On a positive note, the reverb was there, I just had to use your on-screen method of adjusting the level. I thought since the effect send knobs weren’t doing anything that it didn’t transfer into the performance

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Posted on: December 17, 2020 @ 05:24 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11686
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
DallasXanadu - 17 December 2020 03:05 PM

Your way does sound infinitely easier, but I’ve never been able to get that method to work. I get to the copy screen and select the voice I want to copy. The destination of “current” doesn’t seem changeable however. When I hit enter twice, nothing changes. Which part out of the 4 options is supposed to locate it? Whenever I try it, none of the four parts are different.

Unless you describe in detail (step-by-step) what you’re doing, it’s hard to determine where you’re going astray. Did you look at the manual pages I referred to? I verified that the Copy Voice Job for “Feeling” works as expected on my XF, but since the screen displays are different than those of the MOXF it won’t help for me to detail the steps.

 

DallasXanadu -

Not sure if the link to the pic will work, but I’ll try,

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuXx5b-o3JiUkNVcY-Xm1JJ7I64o1g

(looks like clicking on the link doesn’t work, but if you copy and paste directly into your browser location it does)

I can’t access whatever the picture is. If you zip it, it can be attached to a post here. In my case, even pasting the URL into the browser doesn’t help.

 

DallasXanadu -

On a positive note, the reverb was there, I just had to use your on-screen method of adjusting the level. I thought since the effect send knobs weren’t doing anything that it didn’t transfer into the performance

If the Chorus and Reverb SEND levels weren’t previously set (changed from zero) then that would indeed be a cause of those effects not working.

Since as cmayhle suggested, the Voice Copier function is available in the free demo from Melas, you might want to try it…
http://www.jmelas.gr/motif/bundle.php

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Posted on: December 23, 2020 @ 03:06 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11686
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

Revisiting this…

DallasXanadu - 17 December 2020 03:05 PM

Your way does sound infinitely easier, but I’ve never been able to get that method to work. I get to the copy screen and select the voice I want to copy. The destination of “current” doesn’t seem changeable however. When I hit enter twice, nothing changes. Which part out of the 4 options is supposed to locate it? Whenever I try it, none of the four parts are different. Not sure if the link to the pic will work, but I’ll try,

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuXx5b-o3JiUkNVcY-Xm1JJ7I64o1g

(looks like clicking on the link doesn’t work, but if you copy and paste directly into your browser location it does)

I was kindly sent a copy of your picture of the MOXF screen display, and have a better understanding of your question.

Reverb and Chorus are System Effects, and are applied by default to all four of the Parts in a Performance. However, the Insertion Effect Switch can be set to determine which of the four Parts will have the System effects applied. See Performance Common Edit information in the MOXF Reference Manual…
[F6]EFFECT > [SF2]INS SW
...on pages 63-64.

If the Insertion Effect Switch is turned off for a Part, the Reverb and Chorus settings won’t apply. If you’re creating your own performance, it’s best to start with an initialized Performance, in order to avoid the possibility that a previous setting will do something unexpected/unwanted.

Although written with concentration on the XS, this support article explains the basics about System Effects.
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/insertion_effects_differ_from_the_system_effects

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Posted on: December 28, 2020 @ 06:10 PM
DallasXanadu
Total Posts:  72
Joined  05-20-2015
status: Experienced

Thanks! That helps a lot with understanding the different types of effects.

I still haven’t been able to COPY a voice into a performance. When I’m in the performance (do I need to be in edit mode?), I hit JOB -> COPY, select the voice and X the boxes I want moved. When I hit enter twice, I still have the same voice (or no voices as the case may be) in the performance. Do I have to tell it somewhere along the way which of the 4 parts I want it moved into? I guess I’ll pull up the manual and reference the pages you mentioned and see if that helps. Although I almost always get much clearer advice from you than I do the manual. :)

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Posted on: December 29, 2020 @ 08:58 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11686
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
DallasXanadu - 28 December 2020 06:10 PM

Thanks! That helps a lot with understanding the different types of effects.

You’re welcome.

 

DallasXanadu -

I still haven’t been able to COPY a voice into a performance. When I’m in the performance (do I need to be in edit mode?), I hit JOB -> COPY, select the voice and X the boxes I want moved. When I hit enter twice, I still have the same voice (or no voices as the case may be) in the performance. Do I have to tell it somewhere along the way which of the 4 parts I want it moved into? I guess I’ll pull up the manual and reference the pages you mentioned and see if that helps. Although I almost always get much clearer advice from you than I do the manual. :)

If you’ve read the [F3] > [SF2] info on pages 70-71 of the Reference Manual, you may not need the following - but just in case…
The COPY VOICE Job doesn’t copy the Voice to a Performance Part. It only copies any or all (your choice) of the System Effects or Master Effects and EQ for the Voice that you have already assigned to a Part.

That is, you first need to manually select a Voice for a Part, with “Parameter with Voice” turned on if you want all the Voice’s Parameters other than System Effects. After that, the COPY VOICE Job can be applied.

There’s no process on the MOXF to do the above in one single step. That’s why the Melas software was suggested.

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Posted on: January 06, 2021 @ 03:25 PM
DallasXanadu
Total Posts:  72
Joined  05-20-2015
status: Experienced

Bingo! I wish a voice could be moved “as is” into a performance, but this isn’t nearly as difficult as I was making it. And I kind of like the fact that you can COPY the effect settings from ANY sound into your performance, not just the one you’re using in the performance. So many layers to this machine. I remember reading years ago, when researching home theater receivers, that the engineering that goes into them is literally rocket science. I feel that the science that goes into modern keyboards is similarly off the charts complicated. But God bless the programmers and designers that do it. I noticed this past weekend that the MOXF is still being sold at Guitar Center. And they’re not much cheaper than what I paid 5 years ago. I’ve paid for mine many times over gigging, and I’ve thought about something new. But I’m guessing the learning curve on them is pretty steep, and I probably don’t need to fix something that ain’t broke (yet). I certainly don’t feel like what really matters - the sounds - have improved by leaps and bounds, if at all.

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