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Viewing topic "Voices that go out of tune or transpose themselves"

     
Posted on: September 13, 2020 @ 06:32 PM
muscarella
Total Posts:  444
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Enthusiast

I have double-checked the Utilities setting and put the “chase” to All but I’m still having a lot of trouble with Voices (Guitar especially) that get confused mid song and start playing notes out of tune. I know doing a fast wind to the end of the Song and back to the beginning usually helps. But I’ve got two Songs now that are acting up and nothing seems to settle them down.

The Tenor Growl has been particularly crazy. Twice I’ve re-recorded a musical passage and both times it suddenly transposed itself after playing just fine.

The other related problem is with a Chugga muted electric guitar that I’m using as a percussion instrument It sounds cool BUT one element of the Voice keeps wandering off into o be in some other key.

What is it that causes this behavior? Is it only certain types of Voices with certain elements that have this trouble? And the intermittent nature of it makes me nervous, cause I use the MOXF8 “LIVE”.

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Posted on: September 15, 2020 @ 10:56 AM
zpink
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Joined  08-02-2014
status: Enthusiast

You must’ve expected the first reply to be asking, what is connected to the MoXF? ;-)
MIDI or expression pedal?

I don’t use guitar sounds or record songs in my MoXF, but I’ve had patterns on repeat for very long time and never had anything drifting out of tune myself, so apart from something external, I wouldn’t know.

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Posted on: September 15, 2020 @ 07:30 PM
lastmonk
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Joined  12-17-2013
status: Enthusiast
muscarella - 13 September 2020 06:32 PM

I have double-checked the Utilities setting and put the “chase” to All but I’m still having a lot of trouble with Voices (Guitar especially) that get confused mid song and start playing notes out of tune. I know doing a fast wind to the end of the Song and back to the beginning usually helps. But I’ve got two Songs now that are acting up and nothing seems to settle them down.

The Tenor Growl has been particularly crazy. Twice I’ve re-recorded a musical passage and both times it suddenly transposed itself after playing just fine.

The other related problem is with a Chugga muted electric guitar that I’m using as a percussion instrument It sounds cool BUT one element of the Voice keeps wandering off into o be in some other key.

What is it that causes this behavior? Is it only certain types of Voices with certain elements that have this trouble? And the intermittent nature of it makes me nervous, cause I use the MOXF8 “LIVE”.

You would have to supply alot more info to get this kind of thing figured out.

What Mode are you in?

What is your controller set setup?  (e.g what is the pitch bend assigned to)

Are you using in arpeggios in the song that could be sending pitch bend

Does the song have scenes?  Have any of the scenes changed recently?

A pitch envelop for a voice can change the pitch

The pitch bend controller and its controller set assignments can change the pitch

Pitch can be changed by a controller set assignment

transpose can be changed in a voice parameter
transpose can be changed in a scene

If voices that were originally part of a mixvoice or performance are deleted or moved , renamed during a reloading process and that mixvoice or performance was originally part of a sequenced song or pattern, then very weird !@#$ can happen during playback of that song sequence or pattern sequence..

There are just so many ways that you could have bizarre things happening with transpose or pitch, that you would have to supply a great deal of background for anyone to be able to begin to help you out.

Sometimes you have to just reset Song and Pattern memory.  Delete the particular song or pattern, or delete all songs and patterns from the sequencer.  There have been times when I’ve done so much editing and sequencing, copying, deleting, moving, slicing, to a song that the sequence starts to behave in ways that I’m not happy with.  and I’ve had to copy everything to a Usb drive (backup sequencer memory) .  Clear out all songs and patterns and then reload and in one or two rare cases record the entire song and all of its tracks from scratch :-(

TBH to me it sounds like a software/settings issue.  Especially because its only happening to a couple of voices in a song.

Are we talking about the same 1 or 2 songs messing up, or all songs?

You really would have to be very very very specific M8..

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Posted on: September 18, 2020 @ 08:50 AM
muscarella
Total Posts:  444
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Enthusiast

Wow. OK. I’m not sure where to start but I’ll try. Thanks for replying.

I work directly in the MOXF. No external Controllers. No other computer software involved. 

I’m in Song mode in both examples.

The Voices are Chuggin’ Guitar (possibly from Dave P’s Axxe collection) and Tenor Growl. In general I do very little else with Voices, going with the Preset. I’ve done no tweaking of the Voices, in terms of it’s elements.

The only Controller I’m using is the Pitch Bend wheel since I’m programming bent notes. The passages in question do NOT have PB events. (But they are on a Part with other Note events that DO use PB.)

I’m working with a commercial MIDI file that I’ve extensively over-written, re-recorded, etc. I’ve deleted all the EXC and RPN and PC from every Part. But in both cases, Chuggin Guitar and Tenor Growl Sax, the musical passage is something I’m playing and recording. It’s not something that was part of the original MIDI programming (though it exists on the same track/Part with original sequenced events, if that matters.)

I’ve put Voice with Parameter to ON for both. And I’m using an Insertion Effect, but only on the Guitar.

No Pitch Envelopes that I’m aware of. 

There are no Arps being used in the Song. (I’ve never even tried doing that, though I hear it’s possible.)

I’ve tried simply copying the Song via Job and taking it to another Song slot, but the weirdness follows. 

I am not using Scenes. I’m not using Mix modes or Templates.

My impression is that both of those Voices have a certain “wobbly” character to them. A deliberate sort of “looseness” to simulate the not quite perfect tuning of a guitar or the slightly “flat” growl of a tenor sax. I have no idea if that would be a factor in this or whether that means there is some kind of Pitch setting going on WITHIN the Voice elements.

That’s all I can think to relate now. My concern is not so much the inconvenience but my fear that by not understanding what’s causing that to happen, it will suddenly decide to do it in the middle of a live performance.

Thanks.

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Posted on: September 18, 2020 @ 09:38 AM
zpink
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Joined  08-02-2014
status: Enthusiast

Could it be so that the track with the ‘out of tune’ voices share the same channel as one of the tracks with the pitch bend?
I’m afraid that I’ve never loaded an external MIDI file into the MoXF, and my own simple setup is each track has its own channel of which some are sent interanlly and others to my Elektron boxes, so am in no way an expert.
One thing you can do to test is to delete all the other tracks maybe (without storing!) and see if the problem goes away.
Or maybe just check the MIDI channels on all your tracks.

Sorry, just guessing, so hopefully someone else can chip in with better ideas.

Best of luck!

PS. From what I can understand from your post, this does not happen if you’re just playing these voices? So that makes it less likely that you actually have a faulty PB wheel.

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Posted on: September 18, 2020 @ 09:01 PM
muscarella
Total Posts:  444
Joined  11-01-2003
status: Enthusiast

Thanks for considering. It’s definitely happening to the MIDI event version of the passage. They sound correct when I’m actually playing/recording and in fact they may sound fine one play through and then go crazy the very next time. I’ve taken to rewinding to the top every time and then fast forwarding to just before the passage in question, thinking that would help get the track up to “speed” and sometimes it plays correct and sometimes not, so it’s not much help. Since I am transposing the Tone of the Voice/Part I’m playing AND I’ve probably done a global transposing on the the entire Song, it’s possible the interval it’s jumping to is somehow mirroring that. But that would seem to be a problem many others would have reported long ago.

I’m not sure I can report much more. I really thought someone would say they’ve had the same problem with certain Voices because they utilize certain Elements that get confused but responds usually to running it past the end events, then recuing to the top. I’ve had to do that in the past but the perfect transposing is a first for sure.

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