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Viewing topic "Changing Patches on Motif XS8 by midi"

     
Posted on: August 03, 2020 @ 12:59 PM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

What are the midi commands to change apatches on the XS8.
Which midi ports needs to be used ?
The USB midi shows 4 midi channels in and out, and in addition you have the midi 5p-dins on the back of the modem.

Which ones should be used to send the midi data to, to change patches ?
At the moment the 5pdin midi is used to send voice midi commands just p[laying back mini from file using the patch that is manually set on the motif.

The XS8 manual only adresses this in a skimpy way on P83 abouts.
No code examples, No midi instruction sets ... nothing !

There is midi lookups available for the XF
e.g. “Each Bank is defined by a two byte message: MSB and LSB.” and then the manual would further list the banks and the LSB MSB’s needed.
For the XS8 it seems a vague unknown.

So if the XS midi commands are similar to XF, it means I need to send
MSB:063 and LSB and pc-range still fuzzy about the last two.

I undersatnd how to select the Pre1-8 with MSB:063 & LSB:0-7

But, I cannot figure how to send midi commands to select each of A-H and 1-16 on my XS8

So
1) how do I change patches with midi,
2) and what must the code be to do so
3) and can it only be done through the USB PC midi connection?
4) or can it be done through the 5p-din connectors on the back of the XS8 ?

Thanks

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 03, 2020 @ 02:54 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11494
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
oldkeys - 03 August 2020 12:59 PM

What are the midi commands to change apatches on the XS8.
Which midi ports needs to be used ?
The USB midi shows 4 midi channels in and out, and in addition you have the midi 5p-dins on the back of the modem.

Which ones should be used to send the midi data to, to change patches ?
At the moment the 5pdin midi is used to send voice midi commands just p[laying back mini from file using the patch that is manually set on the motif.

We covered some of this previously:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/481424/

 

oldkeys -

The XS8 manual only adresses this in a skimpy way on P83 abouts.
No code examples, No midi instruction sets ... nothing !

It seems you’re looking in the XS Owner’s Manual, which isn’t the place to find the information you need. I’ll get back to that further on.

 

oldkeys -

There is midi lookups available for the XF
e.g. “Each Bank is defined by a two byte message: MSB and LSB.” and then the manual would further list the banks and the LSB MSB’s needed.

I can’t find your quoted text in any of the XF manuals. I did find it on page 4 of a support article (http://www.motifator.com/storage/support/XF_MasterMode.pdf).

The MSB/LSB info in that PDF applies to the XS, except for User4, since that bank doesn’t exist on an XS. The PC (Program Change) range applies as well.

 

oldkeys -

For the XS8 it seems a vague unknown.

So if the XS midi commands are similar to XF, it means I need to send
MSB:063 and LSB and pc-range still fuzzy about the last two.

I undersatnd how to select the Pre1-8 with MSB:063 & LSB:0-7

But, I cannot figure how to send midi commands to select each of A-H and 1-16 on my XS8

Group A covers Programs 01~16
Group B covers Programs 17~32
Etc.
Select a Program on your XS and look at the top of the display, where the Program number (001~128) is shown along with Bank and Group number.

The Program number is what needs to be sent as PC, following the Bank Select MSB/LSB. How that’s done depends on the software/hardware you’re using to send messages to the XS.

Note that the above only applies to Program selection in either Voice or Performance modes, not for Masters, Songs, or Patterns. See the info under the Bank Select table on page 56 of the XS Data List…
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/335014/motifxs_en_dl_c0.pdf
...but be aware that Program numbering there is shown as as 0~127 rather that 1~128. Which to use depends on your sending gear, but the result should make that determination obvious.

You might also want the XS Data List 2…
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/334779/motifxs_en_dl2_b0.pdf

 

oldkeys -

So
1) how do I change patches with midi,
2) and what must the code be to do so
3) and can it only be done through the USB PC midi connection?
4) or can it be done through the 5p-din connectors on the back of the XS8 ?

Thanks

As above, via DIN MIDI-In or USB Port 1.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 03, 2020 @ 03:04 PM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

Cannot thank you enough.
Usb port 1 great! that solves a lot of headaches.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 03, 2020 @ 06:10 PM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

Thank you I finally understand how this works. I dont know why they make it so difficult explaining it.
MSB:LSB are just the rows and columns of a 128x128 array where the value 0-127 is the value in the array position. sheesh.! Dead simple.

Knowing this it was easy to construct the command of course.
I did it with midiox, and I know the Motif received the command as the reply from the motif was “Grand Piano” whic h is in fact exactly the patch I constructed the code for.

However,...the motif confirmed the Grand Piano Patch request, but did NOT change to the patch. What am I missing ??

Here is midiox terminal output “https://i.imgur.com/ntiGprz.png” (also attached)”
As you can see instruction was sent , motif confirmed, but no patch change !

I also sent the midi command on all channels and there was still no patch change.
Is there anything on the motif that needs to be changed to allow patch changes ?
I did set MIDI interface in the Motif setup to USB.
and local control off

Image Attachments
motifDOENSTchangepatch.png
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 03, 2020 @ 10:45 PM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

I gave up on Motif built in usb midi. Just did not want to work.

For some reason it suddenly works through my midisprt usb to 5 pin din, but the motif reports the wrong patches, when changing them
The Motif shows eg Glasgow in LCD but sends Honky Tonk as the selected patch back through midi as captured by Midi Ox
This is clearly the Motif. Midi Ox has no knowledge of patchnames.

Why does motif send the wrong names of the patches ?

For reference, I have
Interface on midi and
local control on receive.
Channel is omni and
xmit channel is 1 .
Device number is all.
Under switch all is on.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 04, 2020 @ 12:35 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11494
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
oldkeys - 03 August 2020 06:10 PM

Thank you I finally understand how this works. I dont know why they make it so difficult explaining it.
MSB:LSB are just the rows and columns of a 128x128 array where the value 0-127 is the value in the array position. sheesh.! Dead simple.

Knowing this it was easy to construct the command of course.
I did it with midiox, and I know the Motif received the command as the reply from the motif was “Grand Piano” whic h is in fact exactly the patch I constructed the code for.

However,...the motif confirmed the Grand Piano Patch request, but did NOT change to the patch. What am I missing ??

Here is midiox terminal output “https://i.imgur.com/ntiGprz.png” (also attached)”
As you can see instruction was sent , motif confirmed, but no patch change !

There’s no reply/confirmation from the Motif shown in the attachment. The “Monitor-Output” display shows what MIDI-OX sent to the XS8. MIDI-OX displays “Patch"/Voice names based on the General MIDI standard - it knows nothing about what the Motif calls them. See
https://soundprogramming.net/file-formats/general-midi-instrument-list/

(By the way, it appears that you customized the port name, since USB Port 1 would normally be named “Yamaha MOTIF XS8-1”, not “YAMAHA MOTIF XS8 MIDI 1”. Such changes make it more difficult for someone else to verify that things are configured correctly.)

If you want to see what the XS is sending, look at the MIDI-OX “Monitor-Input” screen. Try changing the selected Voice via the XS panel, which should show at that Input display - if not, things aren’t set up correctly. MIDI-OX can be configured to display both Input and Output simultaneously via a split screen, if desired.

 

oldkeys -

I also sent the midi command on all channels and there was still no patch change.
Is there anything on the motif that needs to be changed to allow patch changes ?
I did set MIDI interface in the Motif setup to USB.
and local control off

Sorry, but diagnosing what may be misconfigured, etc., is beyond what I can do via the forum.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 04, 2020 @ 12:37 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  11494
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

One thought concerning XS/computer USB communication…
You might want to verify that you have the proper USB-MIDI Driver installed. Since your member profile indicates “other” for your computer OS, I can’t determine which is appropriate for you.

See https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/index.html?c=music_production&k=Motif+XS

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 05, 2020 @ 11:12 AM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

5pindin wrote.

“ There’s no reply/confirmation from the Motif shown in the attachment. The “Monitor-Output” display shows what MIDI-OX sent to the XS8. MIDI-OX displays “Patch"/Voice names based on the General MIDI standard - it knows nothing about what the Motif calls them. See
https://soundprogramming.net/file-formats/general-midi-instrument-list/”

Ok I see what happened.
The names were similar enough and generally in the same patch positions, that I became confused whether Motif sends it or not.

Otherwise, I dont care much for the USB midi as everything works spectacular through good old 5pindin now.

Thanks for all your help

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 06, 2020 @ 04:45 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11494
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

You’re welcome. Although it should be possible to do so via USB, I’m glad you were able to accomplish what you wanted with 5-pin DIN.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 07, 2020 @ 02:15 PM
oldkeys
Total Posts:  61
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Experienced

I try and stick to legacy non pc solutions as far as possible. It makes the transition to live use so much less complicated.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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