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Viewing topic "Some questions"

     
Posted on: July 23, 2020 @ 02:51 PM
just_a_dude
Total Posts:  19
Joined  07-22-2020
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Help me understand. I have a few questions:

1. I have FL1 and it is less than half occupied. Can I use multiple libraries on FL1 while there is free space?

2. I don’t know how it works, but after loading the “Inspiration in a flash”, I create a X3A file through the Motif XF standalone editor on my PC. And then I go back to the factory sounds, but if necessary, I can always call the sounds from “Inspiration in a flash” library through the file created in the first step. Can I do this when there are other multiple libraries on FL1?

3. Is there any way to build 8 tracks in a Motif XF standalone editor by copying 4 voices from two different performance modes?

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Posted on: July 27, 2020 @ 01:30 PM
5pinDIN
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just_a_dude - 23 July 2020 02:51 PM

Help me understand. I have a few questions:

Welcome to the forum. Sorry that you didn’t get a reply before this. I personally would have responded earlier, but my ISP hadn’t been providing service for the past four days.

 

just_a_dude -

1. I have FL1 and it is less than half occupied. Can I use multiple libraries on FL1 while there is free space?

Samples/Waveforms (only) from multiple libraries can be installed on the flash module until it’s full. Voices from those libraries have to be loaded to User banks. Depending on how many unique Voice banks each library has, you may be able to load a few at the same time. See usage of Load Type “1bank voice” on pages 243-244 of the XF Reference Manual.

 

just_a_dude -

2. I don’t know how it works, but after loading the “Inspiration in a flash”, I create a X3A file through the Motif XF standalone editor on my PC. And then I go back to the factory sounds, but if necessary, I can always call the sounds from “Inspiration in a flash” library through the file created in the first step. Can I do this when there are other multiple libraries on FL1?

Since the Motif XF Editor can only save X3E files, it’s unclear what you’re doing. Perhaps you’re using a DAW, such as Cubase.

 

just_a_dude -

3. Is there any way to build 8 tracks in a Motif XF standalone editor by copying 4 voices from two different performance modes?

The Motif XF Editor has no tracks. Perhaps you’re referring to the (up to) 16 Parts available when the Editor is in Song or Pattern mode. The XF’s sequencer can copy up to four Performances to a Song or Pattern Mixing by using the Mix Job “Copy Performance”. (See pages 196-197 of the XF Reference Manual.) If the Editor is then synchronized to the XF, the Parameters for those Parts from the Performances will be transferred to the Editor.

If you’re using a DAW, data from those same Parts can be gotten from the XF.

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Posted on: July 27, 2020 @ 04:20 PM
just_a_dude
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Joined  07-22-2020
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Nothing wrong. Thank you very much!

1 - “until its full”. OK.
3 - Yes, when I said “tracks” I meant Parts. And I will definitely try Job “Copy Performance”.

2 - I loaded “Inspiration” lib to Motif. I connected Motif to PC and
via Editor saved this “system state” to file X3E (~2.6MB). Then I returned Motif to its previous system state from backup. I connected Motif to Editor again and import from X3E file necessary voices to Mixing Voice data with 16 cells.
This way I can use voices from any Bank at the same time. The voices from the “Mixing voice data” are probably contains in internal RAM in this case? Can any audio settings be lost in this case? I don’t know.

I don’t understand what other way I can call the required voice. The voices on FL1 are just a long list of names that I can’t call in any way other than by overwriting the system file (which contains links or pointers) or opening the X3E file via Editor on my computer. Am I not right?

I bought a new library here and have already found a lot of strange bugs.)) And I don’t understand why this is happening.))

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Posted on: July 27, 2020 @ 06:12 PM
5pinDIN
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Mixing Voice data is stored with the rest of each Song or Pattern Mix, in non-volatile memory. Each Song/Pattern can hold up to 16 Mix Voices, with a maximum of 256 for all Songs/Patterns. If you haven’t seen it yet, this support article might be interesting:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/motif_xf_the_mix_voice

There are no Voices stored on FL1, only Samples/Waveforms which may be associated with certain Voices. All the other Voice data is found in either a Voice bank or a Mixing Voice. So yes, you have to recall a Voice, and that will point to the related FL1 entry if you keep your files properly updated as you make changes. This article goes into some detail about flash module operation:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/motif_xf_flash_memory_expansion_modules

Also see:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/flash_board_session

What sort of “bugs” are you experiencing? Proper loading technique and file creation often eliminate problems, so let us know what’s going wrong and we should be able to help.

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Posted on: July 27, 2020 @ 09:11 PM
just_a_dude
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Thank you!

The library install to User Bank 4. Size of lib is 60 MB. I already have FL1 and FL2. FL1 is formatted and half empty. FL2 is formatted and fully empty. But I don’t want to use FL1 or FL2 for such small libraries specially designed for User RAM.

My MOTIF XF is connected to the computer via FW and the ethernet. When I open the library (StringsXF.n3.X3A file) by the Motif XF standalone editor (by import procedure to Mixing voices with 16 cells) on my computer (Windows XP), it turns out that the “Whalecall” voice doesn’t sound. The entire range of this voice is silent.
Then I tried to load this library from share folder on PC via ethernet. Mount folder, select file X3A, select type “all” and set “Load USR” field to “USR”.

From instruction to this library (LOADING TO A MOTIF XF WITH NO FLASHBOARD INSTALLED):
“5. Press the FILE button on the front panel of the Motif XF. You should see the field next to “Type” highlighted and it should be set to “all”.
6. Press the cursor up button once, then use the INC/YES button to select the file name “StringsXF.n3.X3A” Press the right cursor button once, so the “Type” field is highlighted again, then press the right cursor button again to move to and highlight the field next to “Load USR”. Use either the INC/YES button or the Data Wheel to change the field so it reads “USR” (if it does not say “USR” already).
7. Press the SF2 button (Load). Then press the INC/YES button once.
8. The library will start loading (you’ll see an onscreen message saying “Now Loading..") When the loading process is complete, you will be returned to the FILE screen.
9. Press the VOICE button on the XF, then Press the User 4 bank button, and press A1 to select the first voice, which is Hall Strings 1.
NOTE: When you power off your Motif XF, the samples loaded to User RAM (as described above) will be lost. You will have to re-load “StringsXF.n3.x3A” when you power up your Motif XF again.”

After loading via ethernet to Motif all voices of this lib are OK, but:
1. My XF editor on PC couldn’t connect to Motif (timeout error) while this library was loaded! Perhaps the computer connection settings in my Motif were set to USB instead of FW after loading this library? - I forgot to check this.
2. After power off and on I still see all this library voices in User Bank 4! I tried it twice.
3. The voice named “Whalecall” via ethernet = voice named “Scare 1” via Editor. Some confusion with the names.
4. Also the all songs were overwritten. So the factory songs were restored.

Something is wrong. Either an instruction or a file or something else. I didn’t understand. Is it possible that installed FL1 and FL2 make it impossible to use User RAM? This is crazy!

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Posted on: July 28, 2020 @ 03:41 AM
5pinDIN
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just_a_dude - 27 July 2020 09:11 PM

Thank you!

You’re welcome.

 

just_a_dude -

The library install to User Bank 4. Size of lib is 60 MB. I already have FL1 and FL2. FL1 is formatted and half empty. FL2 is formatted and fully empty. But I don’t want to use FL1 or FL2 for such small libraries specially designed for User RAM.

My MOTIF XF is connected to the computer via FW and the ethernet. When I open the library (StringsXF.n3.X3A file) by the Motif XF standalone editor (by import procedure to Mixing voices with 16 cells) on my computer (Windows XP), it turns out that the “Whalecall” voice doesn’t sound. The entire range of this voice is silent.
Then I tried to load this library from share folder on PC via ethernet. Mount folder, select file X3A, select type “all” and set “Load USR” field to “USR”.

[...]

After loading via ethernet to Motif all voices of this lib are OK, but:
1. My XF editor on PC couldn’t connect to Motif (timeout error) while this library was loaded! Perhaps the computer connection settings in my Motif were set to USB instead of FW after loading this library? - I forgot to check this.

It appears that you’re loading the “Orchestral Strings XF” library. I don’t have that particular library, so I can’t comment on certain things.

In general, loading an X3A file via Ethernet is likely to work more reliably than using the Editor for that purpose. However, to avoid overwriting user settings in Utility mode (such as MIDI In/Out and Ethernet ones), rather than loading as Type “all”, Type “all without system” is preferable. That way your own settings will remain, rather than inheriting those of the author of the library.

 

just_a_dude -

2. After power off and on I still see all this library voices in User Bank 4! I tried it twice.

This is expected. User sample memory is volatile, and the 60MB will be lost when the XF is powered down. However, the User Voice memory is non-volatile, and Voices loaded to User banks will overwrite the ones previously stored and will remain there between power cycles unless again overwritten.

 

just_a_dude -

3. The voice named “Whalecall” via ethernet = voice named “Scare 1” via Editor. Some confusion with the names.

Not having the library, I can’t offer any suggestions about this.

 

just_a_dude -

4. Also the all songs were overwritten. So the factory songs were restored.

Something is wrong. Either an instruction or a file or something else. I didn’t understand. Is it possible that installed FL1 and FL2 make it impossible to use User RAM? This is crazy!

Installation of one or two flash modules does not prevent usage of the 128MB User sample memory. However, User sample memory and other User memory are separate and distinct - see above.

When loading a file as Type “all”, you can expect User memory will be overwritten. Even using Type “all without system” won’t prevent overwriting of Songs. That’s an instance where Type “1bankvoice” can be useful.

Perhaps more to the point, frequently saving “all”, “all voice”, “all song” (etc.) files will allow you to revert to your own preferred setup by reloading as desired.

It takes a while to get used to how the XF handles such things, but eventually the procedures will likely become second nature.

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Posted on: July 28, 2020 @ 07:23 AM
just_a_dude
Total Posts:  19
Joined  07-22-2020
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Yes, this is “Orchestral Strings XF” library.

“This is expected. User sample memory is volatile, and the 60MB will be lost when the XF is powered down. However, the User Voice memory is non-volatile, and Voices loaded to User banks will overwrite the ones previously stored and will remain there between power cycles unless again overwritten.”

- Do you mean that the voices will remain, but will be “damaged” because they will be voices without samples?

1. Ok. Then why audition of the voices shows that voices (like “Whalecall” or “Hall Strings 1") are unchanged? Did the sounds without samples don’t have to sound wrong or not work at all?

2. Who the hell writes these instructions?

“NOTE: When you power off your Motif XF, the samples loaded to User RAM (as described above) will be lost. You will have to re-load “StringsXF.n3.x3A” when you power up your Motif XF again.”
- In context, there is only one way to understand this - that after restarting, your sounds will return to the previous state, although this is not the case. It would be better to write that the loaded sounds will become incomplete or “damaged”.

“Press the FILE button on the front panel of the Motif XF. You should see the field next to “Type” highlighted and it should be set to “all"."
- And no word that your settings will go to hell and you will probably lose connect to your PC! No word that your songs will be overwritten! Instead of writing “all without system” or “1bankvoice” in “Type” field.

I don’t live at home now. Later, I will check my guess that the loss of connection occurred due to a change in the connection settings (USB instead of FW). I hope if this is the case, I can create an X3E file to load library voices on demand. I’ll probably post the results next week.

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Posted on: July 28, 2020 @ 09:55 AM
5pinDIN
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just_a_dude - 28 July 2020 07:23 AM

Yes, this is “Orchestral Strings XF” library.

“This is expected. User sample memory is volatile, and the 60MB will be lost when the XF is powered down. However, the User Voice memory is non-volatile, and Voices loaded to User banks will overwrite the ones previously stored and will remain there between power cycles unless again overwritten.”

- Do you mean that the voices will remain, but will be “damaged” because they will be voices without samples?

I meant that the data in the Voice banks, including where the Voices point for their associated Waveform(s), will remain unchanged. Obviously, sound data that’s gone can’t produce anything.

 

just_a_dude -

1. Ok. Then why audition of the voices shows that voices (like “Whalecall” or “Hall Strings 1") are unchanged? Did the sounds without samples don’t have to sound wrong or not work at all?

Again, since I don’t have the library, my reply will be generic…
A Voice (or a specific Element of it) that depends on only Waveform data in ROM will, of course, be able to produce sound regardless of loss of User sample memory content.

 

just_a_dude -

2. Who the hell writes these instructions?

“NOTE: When you power off your Motif XF, the samples loaded to User RAM (as described above) will be lost. You will have to re-load “StringsXF.n3.x3A” when you power up your Motif XF again.”
- In context, there is only one way to understand this - that after restarting, your sounds will return to the previous state, although this is not the case. It would be better to write that the loaded sounds will become incomplete or “damaged”.

“Press the FILE button on the front panel of the Motif XF. You should see the field next to “Type” highlighted and it should be set to “all"."
- And no word that your settings will go to hell and you will probably lose connect to your PC! No word that your songs will be overwritten! Instead of writing “all without system” or “1bankvoice” in “Type” field.

The instructions were likely written by the author of the library. I’ll make no excuses for such person(s), other than to say that sometimes they can be shortsighted.

 

just_a_dude -

I don’t live at home now. Later, I will check my guess that the loss of connection occurred due to a change in the connection settings (USB instead of FW). I hope if this is the case, I can create an X3E file to load library voices on demand. I’ll probably post the results next week.

Any discussion of your findings and/or workarounds might be beneficial to others.

Unfortunately, I didn’t get to over 11,400 posts (as of this one) because the Motifs are especially easy to work with.  :-)  However, information is available, in this forum, videos, etc. Most users become more comfortable with time - that is, the ones who stop complaining and are willing to work things out.

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Posted on: July 28, 2020 @ 11:50 AM
just_a_dude
Total Posts:  19
Joined  07-22-2020
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“Again, since I don’t have the library, my reply will be generic…
A Voice (or a specific Element of it) that depends on only Waveform data in ROM will, of course, be able to produce sound regardless of loss of User sample memory content.”

- I didn’t check all the voices, but some clearly worked.

I have been using my Motif for a long time, but I was only going to expand the library now. I don’t know this instrument very well.

Thanks.

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Posted on: July 28, 2020 @ 05:40 PM
5pinDIN
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just_a_dude - 28 July 2020 11:50 AM

[...]
I have been using my Motif for a long time, but I was only going to expand the library now. I don’t know this instrument very well.

I think that effort made to understand Motif operation is well rewarded. The pandemic is unfortunate in most respects, but for some it creates spare time that working with a Motif may help to pass.

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Posted on: July 29, 2020 @ 05:30 AM
just_a_dude
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Usually I just use the motif as a sound module. I rarely sit down at the instrument. I don’t compose music by play it on a keyboard. I just write notes or arrange squares in the program. In addition, my time is divided into periods between different areas: IT, music composition, music theory and politics.

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Posted on: August 04, 2020 @ 05:37 PM
just_a_dude
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No, it didn’t work out. I loaded the library into Motif as shown in the picture (pic.1):

After that I synced the Motif with my PC by using these settings (pic.2):

...and saved X3E file.

Then I restored the Motif settings from the backup. And I tried to load the voices from created X3E file. As in picture 2 but in the opposite direction only. But the result is unsatisfactory!

Then I tried syncing it this way (pic.3):

Nothing has changed!

I also tried to load the entire library from an X3A file (both original and unloaded from Motif) from PC to synthesizer.

In all cases the result was the same! A tree structure with the names of voices is visible. But the voices don’t sound the way they should, for example “Tremulus 2” sounds without a tremolo (pic.4):

In the end I spat and loaded the library on a flashboard repeated the entire procedure as the first time. I created the X3E file again. In this case, everything works correctly. But there is one strange nuance. If you just open the created file and select the voice that had the problem, it turns out that the problem still remains. But if you import the same X3E file, everything will be fine! The “Mixing” folder must be specified as the destination whenever you use the import function (pic.5):

That’s the only way it works!

I don’t know why this happens when I load the library to USR. It seems to me that Motif just doesn’t support loading samples from PC via XF Editor. Can it be true? The Owner’s Manual does not clarify this issue. Or maybe the library is crooked…
Perhaps the libraries that don’t use samples don’t have these drawbacks. (?)

Image Attachments
Motif_1.jpgMotif_2.JPGMotif_3.JPGMotif_4.JPGMotif_5.JPG
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Posted on: August 06, 2020 @ 04:31 PM
5pinDIN
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A Yamaha XF Editor file (X3E) contains no samples, and therefore can’t load any. When the file is created, the User Voices will point to the location of Waveforms each Voice is using at the time - they may be in ROM, User memory, or on a flash module. When the X3E file is later opened and the data sent to the XF, the Voices will use those Waveforms - if they still exist. Of course, if the Waveforms were in the volatile User memory when the X3E was created, and the XF has since been powered down, the Voices needing those Waveforms won’t sound properly unless the User memory is first reloaded.

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Posted on: August 06, 2020 @ 11:46 PM
just_a_dude
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That’s what I’m talking about.

The small size of the library is presented as something convenient and wonderful. But actually loading the library into SDRAM is absolutely meaningless since it’s a one-time operation.

I am very annoyed by the fact that the XF Editor supports many load formats, but almost all of them do not work properly. Why was all this done? I’m tired of bad programming. What is the point of allowing an X3A file to load if it’s not able to load samples? Basic things don’t work.

And the fact that even your correct X3E file, which you “Open” instead of “Importing to Mixing”, also works incorrectly is just beyond madness!

This is also depressing as Mutec FMC-07 2 GB, which costs fabulous money while SSD drives are cheaper and have many times more volume.
I really want to ask: “Guys, why only 2 GB? Why not 4, 8 or 16???”
I think the manufacturers should deal with this connector and make it possible to insert an SSD into it. Then users would be happy.

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Posted on: August 07, 2020 @ 03:15 AM
5pinDIN
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just_a_dude - 06 August 2020 11:46 PM

That’s what I’m talking about.

The small size of the library is presented as something convenient and wonderful. But actually loading the library into SDRAM is absolutely meaningless since it’s a one-time operation.

It may be meaningless to you, but others find the 128MB convenient to load sample libraries under that size. Some users like the Auto Load feature - you might find it useful. See page 223 of the XF Reference Manual.

 

just_a_dude -

I am very annoyed by the fact that the XF Editor supports many load formats, but almost all of them do not work properly. Why was all this done? I’m tired of bad programming. What is the point of allowing an X3A file to load if it’s not able to load samples? Basic things don’t work.

And the fact that even your correct X3E file, which you “Open” instead of “Importing to Mixing”, also works incorrectly is just beyond madness!

You say “incorrectly”, I say trying to force the Editor to do what it wasn’t designed for is probably a frustrating experience. Although it has other functionality, the Yamaha XF Editor’s main purpose is to support editing of Voices and Song/Pattern Mixings.

You might want to consider looking at the John Melas suite of programs for the XF. Perhaps you’ll find something there that meets your expectations. The demo, although having certain functions limited, is free.

 

just_a_dude -

This is also depressing as Mutec FMC-07 2 GB, which costs fabulous money while SSD drives are cheaper and have many times more volume.
I really want to ask: “Guys, why only 2 GB? Why not 4, 8 or 16???”
I think the manufacturers should deal with this connector and make it possible to insert an SSD into it. Then users would be happy.

Some people are never happy.

At the time the XF was designed there were few asynchronous random-read memory devices (chips) available that could be read as fast as ROM, and they weren’t inexpensive. That’s not to say that Yamaha couldn’t have sold the flash modules at somewhat lower prices. However, Mutec has competed with Yamaha, and yet their product pricing is the same order of magnitude as Yamaha’s.

I won’t get into what limits the size of memory that can be addressed.

Since I value my own time, I’m done with this topic.

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Posted on: August 07, 2020 @ 03:47 AM
just_a_dude
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OK. Sorry for your time. I thought we were just talking. Thank you very much.

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