RobinVT - 20 January 2021 09:19 AM

Try here:


https://yamahasynth.com

Luca already posted in the forum there (twice), about a week ago. Not very diplomatically, IMO. Got a few responses, although none from Yamaha representatives, but at least the threads weren’t deleted. Of course, they’re buried somewhat in the queue by now.

It may be a hopeless cause. Due to this issue (and some others), I’ll probably never buy another Yamaha product.

I submitted a request about the driver for the firewire and would like to pass the answer I got from Yamaha:

Hello Robert,

Yes, I have seen this from users. The fact is that Mac OS is no longer supporting the protocol and there is no feasible way to implement the driver on a 64-bit system. I’m curious: It seems like we are getting 100% of the blame for this. Has anyone complained to Apple about their dropping support for IEEE1394?

Honestly, for those wishing to use firewire the solution is to keep an older system that still has the internal infrastructure. 

We certainly are aware of the frustration. But this is the nature of technology: We can’t really continue to develop solutions for products using technology that is outdated. The unhappy users are unhappy that IEEE1394 has been effectively obsoleted by not just us, but the entire industry. I challenge people to find a modern computer that has a S400 connector on it. Furthermore, we did our best to support firewire on the Mac up to 10.4. The entire core system changed with Catalina and made further development impossible without a complete overhaul of the driver itself. So to answer your final question: Yes, on a number of levels it is that hard to upgrade the driver. The OS infrastructure is gone, firewire hardware has been discontinued and the development resources we have must be tasked to develop new products that are ultimately better solutions. 

Lastly, we have no affiliation with the old Motifator site and haven’t for nearly a decade. YamahaSynth.com is our official site.

I realize that this may not be the answer you want to hear, but it’s the only answer I can offer.

Thanks,

Blake

I guess the best thing to do is to keep a separate computer and software just for the Motif XF.  Also, might want to keep some spare parts for that computer too.
Too bad we live in a throw away world, but this is what digital has become.

RobinVT - 21 January 2021 02:25 PM

I submitted a request about the driver for the firewire and would like to pass the answer I got from Yamaha:

Hello Robert,

Yes, I have seen this from users. The fact is that Mac OS is no longer supporting the protocol and there is no feasible way to implement the driver on a 64-bit system. I’m curious: It seems like we are getting 100% of the blame for this. Has anyone complained to Apple about their dropping support for IEEE1394?

Honestly, for those wishing to use firewire the solution is to keep an older system that still has the internal infrastructure. 

We certainly are aware of the frustration. But this is the nature of technology: We can’t really continue to develop solutions for products using technology that is outdated. The unhappy users are unhappy that IEEE1394 has been effectively obsoleted by not just us, but the entire industry. I challenge people to find a modern computer that has a S400 connector on it. Furthermore, we did our best to support firewire on the Mac up to 10.4. The entire core system changed with Catalina and made further development impossible without a complete overhaul of the driver itself. So to answer your final question: Yes, on a number of levels it is that hard to upgrade the driver. The OS infrastructure is gone, firewire hardware has been discontinued and the development resources we have must be tasked to develop new products that are ultimately better solutions. 

Lastly, we have no affiliation with the old Motifator site and haven’t for nearly a decade. YamahaSynth.com is our official site.

I realize that this may not be the answer you want to hear, but it’s the only answer I can offer.

Thanks,

Blake


I guess the best thing to do is to keep a separate computer and software just for the Motif XF.  Also, might want to keep some spare parts for that computer too.
Too bad we live in a throw away world, but this is what digital has become.

Thanks for posting the reply from Blake (Blake Angelos, I presume, a Yamaha Product Specialist).

Before I get deeper into this, I’d like to make it clear that the Mac/Catalina issue doesn’t affect me, other than my sympathy for those who are affected. My XF is connected to a PC running Windows XP Pro, which serves my needs. However, I’m a staunch supporter of ecologically sound actions, and the attitude by Yamaha is completely contrary to that. For them, it seems to be all about the bottom line.

In my opinion, Blake’s reply is somewhat disingenuous. While some computer hardware/software may be “obsoleted” within just 2-5 years, the same should not be true for synths. They’re musical instruments, and fully capable of making music for many decades. In fact, a selling point for the XF was that with the optional flash memory modules, even if the sounds in ROM became dated, you could always get new sounds - it was “future-proofed”.

Sure, Apple dropped support for FireWire on the newer machines, although there are still adapters that allow conversion of newer ports to FW. The XF was still being sold up to about four years ago, and it should be supported for a significant number of years beyond that. But apparently Yamaha doesn’t consider the good will that developing a 64-bit Catalina-compatible FW driver would entail to be worth the expense to them. I suppose the bean counters at Yamaha have determined that a bunch of pissed-off XF owners will result in less loss to the company than driver development.

I’ll stop here…

How is your PC connected to the XF?  I have a Dell PC with Windows XP.  What do I need to connect my XF to it?
Maybe I can just use that?

RobinVT - 22 January 2021 03:08 PM

How is your PC connected to the XF?  I have a Dell PC with Windows XP.  What do I need to connect my XF to it?
Maybe I can just use that?

My PC is connected to the XF via 5-pin DIN, USB, Ethernet, and FW. While there’s certainly some overlap of functions among those connections, each might serve a distinct purpose under some circumstances.

I presume that you’re mostly interested in FW. The PC will, of course, need to have an IEEE1394(FW) port. In my case a Sound Blaster Audigy2 sound card has a FW port, and it fills the need. If your PC doesn’t already have a FW port, then getting one with a TI (Texas Instruments) chipset is usually suggested.

In addition, you’d need to install the FW Driver for Windows. That can be downloaded from…
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/index.html?c=music_production&k=Motif+XF
...as well as Editor, USB-MIDI Driver, etc, for Windows.

A drawback to using an older OS (Windows or Mac) is, of course, that you might not be able to run a recent DAW, etc., of your choice. You might want to research that aspect before otherwise setting up the PC.

Alternatively, Macs having Intel processors (predating the Apple M1 processor) often can be set up to dual-boot and run an older OS than Catalina.

Thanks 5pinDin.  I will look into this.  Your knowledge of this is extremely appreciated!

RobinVT - 23 January 2021 12:09 PM

Thanks 5pinDin.  I will look into this.  Your knowledge of this is extremely appreciated!

Thanks, glad to help. If you have further questions concerning setting up your PC, just ask.

@RobinVT
There’s an area at Sweetwater called Creation Station that might have some advice on this matter.
They build and sell computers just for music production.
The tech advancements of late, with most everything, likely will slow things down regarding a DAW, but they may know of a few that work well enough.

@5pinDIn
Thanks again for your kind words about this Firewire issue.
@Yamaha
There are a lot of customers not just a few that were waiting patiently for your ‘compatibility’ page to update to include them. I for one.
Yamaha integrity is gone, gone away for good, for some of us. The products Yamaha can make will no longer get the second look.
The silence from Yamaha has been deafening. I am surprised at the alleged wording from Blake on the topic as well. Seems out of character for his choice of words from the past.

*never again will I become interested in some new technology from Yamaha. In the background I will always hear “firewire should have been something else like thunderbolt” and these words, “short-lived, too expensive over hyped over processed.”
And I will not forget the investment time I did not receive from the three FW16e boards I purchased for my three XF’s. (at $275 each)