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Viewing topic "AS1 and AS2 assignments disappear from Performance after shutdown"

     
Posted on: March 25, 2020 @ 10:19 AM
kshacklett
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Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

Example:  I have AS2 assigned to bring up volume of two elements in a voice.  It worked as expected in Performance mode until I turned the machine off and back on again.  From that point it only works in Voice mode UNLESS…
I discovered that while editing a performance the AS assignments work as long as a part is selected for editing.  If I go to edit Common the assignments don’t work.  So...I saved the performance while in edit part mode and the assignments worked in Performance mode...UNTIL..I turned the machine off and back on again...and poof...they’re gone.

What’s going on?

P.S.  AS1 and 2 should be named AK1 and 2 since they are knobs, and not switches.

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Posted on: March 25, 2020 @ 05:05 PM
5pinDIN
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Is “Parameter with Voice” turned on before selecting the Voice for the Part of the Performance?

Is Tone 3 selected (LED lit) when the Performance is being stored?

Does the loss of AS1/AS2 assignments in Performance mode require that the MOX be turned off/on, or will it happen if you just select a different Performance and then return to the first one?

If the Voice is used in a Part of a Song/Pattern Mixing, does the loss of AS1/AS2 control still occur?

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Posted on: March 26, 2020 @ 10:21 AM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

“Is “Parameter with Voice” turned on before selecting the Voice for the Part of the Performance?”

YES

“Is Tone 3 selected (LED lit) when the Performance is being stored?”

YES

“Does the loss of AS1/AS2 assignments in Performance mode require that the MOX be turned off/on, or will it happen if you just select a different Performance and then return to the first one?”

It’s mostly unpredictable.  It works when it wants to.  I turned it on today and it worked for one part and not the other.  Later, without turning the MOX off it didn’t work at all.  As I said, it always works as expected in Voice mode.

I just made a big discovery:  AS1 and 2 will only work on one part at a time, whichever part was selected in edit mode when the performance was stored.  If a part with no AS assignment is the last part to be selected in edit mode, then no assignment will work for any part.  And this all goes away when the MOX is turned off.  Of course I expect all parts to be affected simultaneously according to how they were saved in voice mode.  And of course turning off the MOX should not eliminate these assignments.  I’m amazed that this has not been a major complaint by now...and addressed.  My OS is 3.0.  I see that 3.02 is available but it doesn’t say anything about fixing this issue.

“If the Voice is used in a Part of a Song/Pattern Mixing, does the loss of AS1/AS2 control still occur?”

Don’t know.  I never use keyboard sequencers.  I’ve been using Notator on an Atari for sequencing since 1988..since no other sequencer has ever come close.  I’ve been working on tracks for the last few days, and I still marvel at Notator.

Thank, as always..

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Posted on: March 26, 2020 @ 01:18 PM
5pinDIN
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kshacklett - 26 March 2020 10:21 AM

“Is “Parameter with Voice” turned on before selecting the Voice for the Part of the Performance?”

YES

“Is Tone 3 selected (LED lit) when the Performance is being stored?”

YES

OK.

 

kshacklett -

“Does the loss of AS1/AS2 assignments in Performance mode require that the MOX be turned off/on, or will it happen if you just select a different Performance and then return to the first one?”

It’s mostly unpredictable.  It works when it wants to.  I turned it on today and it worked for one part and not the other.  Later, without turning the MOX off it didn’t work at all.  As I said, it always works as expected in Voice mode.

I just made a big discovery:  AS1 and 2 will only work on one part at a time, whichever part was selected in edit mode when the performance was stored.  If a part with no AS assignment is the last part to be selected in edit mode, then no assignment will work for any part.  And this all goes away when the MOX is turned off.  Of course I expect all parts to be affected simultaneously according to how they were saved in voice mode.  And of course turning off the MOX should not eliminate these assignments.  I’m amazed that this has not been a major complaint by now...and addressed.  My OS is 3.0.  I see that 3.02 is available but it doesn’t say anything about fixing this issue.

Just to be sure…
There’s a setting for each Part in a Performance that might be relevant to what you’re experiencing. Whether certain MIDI data (such as controllers like AS1 and AS2) are applied to to a specific Part is dependent on how the Receive Switch is set (on/off) for the data for that Part. See [F5]RCV SW on page 69 of the MOXF Reference Manual.

 

kshacklett -

“If the Voice is used in a Part of a Song/Pattern Mixing, does the loss of AS1/AS2 control still occur?”

Don’t know.  I never use keyboard sequencers.  I’ve been using Notator on an Atari for sequencing since 1988..since no other sequencer has ever come close.  I’ve been working on tracks for the last few days, and I still marvel at Notator.

Song and Pattern modes in the Motif family are more versatile than might be immediately obvious. Mixings for those modes can be used similarly to Performances, or in even more sophisticated manners. There’s no need for there to be actual sequencing (note-on/off data, etc.) in the Tracks.

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/using_a_mixing_program_to_organize_your_live_setup

For your purposes, Performances can be copied to a Song/Pattern Mixing. You might find that a Voice’s AS1/AS2 assignments work properly in a Mixing Part even if they don’t in Performance mode.

To copy a Performance to a Song, using a Mixing Job…
See the MOX Reference Manual, pages 120-121,
[F3]COPY > [SF3]PERFORM

Also see pages 114-115 (Mixing Play),
[F4]TEMPLATE > [SF2]PERFORM

Receive Switch settings also need to be made for Parts in a Mixing.

I’d appreciate it if you would try using a Voice you’re having problems with in a Mixing, and let us know if the behavior is correct or not there.

 

kshacklett -

Thank, as always..

You’re welcome.

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Posted on: March 27, 2020 @ 02:19 PM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

Man.. Assignable knob function is a mess!  These two issues need to be fixed:

1.  Problem:  Only one part can be controlled at a time, even though each of the four parts can be set to respond, or not, to AS1 or AS2.  If a part was the last thing to be selected for edit, AS1 and 2 will only affect that part, and none of the other three.  ALL performances are affected by edit selections in ANY performance.  If a common function was the last thing to be selected for edit, NO part of ANY performance will respond to AS1 or 2.

Fix:  Any part that is set to receive AS1 or 2 should be affected by them unconditionally according to the control sets in Voice mode.

2.  Problem.  Shutting off the MOX and turning it back on causes the Performance edit selection to default to Common...so AS1 and 2 will not do anything until a part is selected for edit.

Fix:  No stored edit should be affected by turning the MOX off and on.  Of course fixing problem #1 should fix problem #2.

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Posted on: March 29, 2020 @ 11:40 AM
5pinDIN
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kshacklett - 27 March 2020 02:19 PM

Man.. Assignable knob function is a mess!  These two issues need to be fixed:

1.  Problem:  Only one part can be controlled at a time, even though each of the four parts can be set to respond, or not, to AS1 or AS2.  If a part was the last thing to be selected for edit, AS1 and 2 will only affect that part, and none of the other three.  ALL performances are affected by edit selections in ANY performance.  If a common function was the last thing to be selected for edit, NO part of ANY performance will respond to AS1 or 2.

Fix:  Any part that is set to receive AS1 or 2 should be affected by them unconditionally according to the control sets in Voice mode.

2.  Problem.  Shutting off the MOX and turning it back on causes the Performance edit selection to default to Common...so AS1 and 2 will not do anything until a part is selected for edit.

Fix:  No stored edit should be affected by turning the MOX off and on.  Of course fixing problem #1 should fix problem #2.

I try to assist with various issues concerning the MOX and other Motif-family models. Yet when I ask for cooperation (see my previous post in this thread), my request is ignored. Help is a two-way street.

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Posted on: March 31, 2020 @ 08:44 AM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

I’ve addressed everything you’ve said except suggestions regarding Song mode.  I think I want to study Master mode next..but I have plenty of other stuff to do.  It’s not a bad idea to learn to play and sing the new songs I’ll be performing..

I want to keep the MOX in one mode when I perform.  I’ll get around to song mode sooner or later to see if that might be the best way to go.  Thanks.

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Posted on: March 31, 2020 @ 11:19 AM
5pinDIN
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kshacklett - 31 March 2020 08:44 AM

I’ve addressed everything you’ve said except suggestions regarding Song mode.  I think I want to study Master mode next..but I have plenty of other stuff to do.  It’s not a bad idea to learn to play and sing the new songs I’ll be performing..

I want to keep the MOX in one mode when I perform.  I’ll get around to song mode sooner or later to see if that might be the best way to go.  Thanks.

After you brought up issues with AS1/AS2 functionality in Performance mode, I made a simple request that should take only a few minutes to accomplish. Whether or not it would help you personally at this time, it might help others who read this thread.

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Posted on: April 01, 2020 @ 11:00 AM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

Just wrote a final determination only to have it disappear because Spectrum sucks.

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Posted on: April 01, 2020 @ 04:56 PM
5pinDIN
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kshacklett - 01 April 2020 11:00 AM

Just wrote a final determination only to have it disappear because Spectrum sucks.

I’ve learned (the hard way) to temporarily copy my text to a word processor document or similar storage. Once the post shows up on the forum, I delete the local copy. I’ve found doing that saves one’s sanity.

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Posted on: April 02, 2020 @ 10:22 AM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

Sometimes I copy often so it’s on the clipboard.  The safest way is to write on sticky notes because apparently everything you write is saved as you write it.  I will write my report again.

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Posted on: April 02, 2020 @ 11:06 AM
kshacklett
Total Posts:  22
Joined  03-15-2020
status: Regular

Song mode and Performance mode are “separate but equal” in how they affect AS1 and 2.  Both will only allow AS1 and 2 to function (or not) according to which track/part was last selected for edit, and only affect that track/part.  And switching between modes affects the last tract/part selected for edit in each mode.  The only difference is that Song mode has no common edit so AS1 and 2 will always affect one track.  As I said, if the last edit in Performance mode was a common function, AS1 and 2 will control nothing (with Tone 3 selected for all of these, of course). 

I have chosen Master mode to stay in when I play live since each master memory can hold a voice, performance, pattern, or song.  I don’t know if this will be advantageous but I see no drawbacks.  I do get a master effect which can be stored on or off with each memory.  Editing in Master mode has no affect on AS1 and 2.  When I turn on the MOX before each live performance I will make sure that track and part one will be selected for edit...as turning of the the MOX makes it default to common edit.  So at least AS1 and 2 will always work on one part...and I’ll know which part.

Yamaha really ought to expand assignable knob function to control at least two parts simultaneously in Performance mode, and to store those conditions when the MOX if off.  Even more obvious, the condition of AF1 and 2 should be stored per voice.  Nevertheless, I don’t think any of this will be a big deal when I perform live.  I’m pretty happy with the sounds and control that are available in such a light weight, 88 weighted key, keyboard.

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Posted on: April 02, 2020 @ 12:26 PM
5pinDIN
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Thanks for posting your findings. My own experiences with the XS and XF are different, which is why the MOX functionality is interesting.

With the XS (OS version 1.50), AS1/AS2 settings are retained for the Parts in both Performances and Song/Pattern Mixings.

Strangely, while with the XF (OS version 1.60) those settings don’t hold in Performances, they work properly in Mixings. If a Performance is copied to a Mixing, AS1/AS2 settings work correctly for the Parts of the Mixing, even though they didn’t in the source Performance.

It seems Yamaha has been consistently inconsistent.  ;-)

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