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Viewing topic "Motif XF6 Receiving Record Arm and/or Play MIDI CC in PATTERN or SONG Mode"

     
Posted on: March 02, 2020 @ 12:54 AM
Rocket_Salad
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-10-2011
status: Newcomer

Hi guys,

Firstly, a massive thank you to everyone who assists people on this forum. I’ve been lurking for years and can usually find exactly what I’m looking for. Without everyone on this forum I’d be absolutely lost!

What I am trying to do seems trivial, but after searching through the forum for days, I cannot find any information on it.

I use my Motif XF6 in a live setting to loop parts in PATTERN mode as I play them. I then move on to the next voice and record that and so on. I know this is not necessarily the Motif’s intended use as it’s a “Music Production Synthesizer”, but it seems to work really well.

In one of the tracks we perform live it is almost impossible to hit the Record Arm and Play buttons in time to the (Ableton) track, especially as I am playing with both hands. I would like to send a MIDI CC message (my apologies if my terminology here is incorrect, I am still new to the whole MIDI thing) from Ableton Live 9 to my Motif XF that arms the Recording and then sets it to play in time with the external (Ableton) track. If this is impossible I could probably hit the Record Arm button at some time before I need the loop to initiate, as long as I can send a MIDI CC Play message from Ableton to my Motif XF. I know Ableton isn’t really used on this forum, but if someone could provide me with information on any DAW I could work backwards from there.

Bonus Question: is there a way to send Part Select change messages via MIDI? All my Voices are set up (in PATTERN Mode) on the different parts. As mentioned I live loop the recordings, change parts and then record that part, loop and repeat. If I could send MIDI information from Ableton to my Motif XF to change parts as I go, that would assist me a lot.

Thank you in advance.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 02, 2020 @ 05:53 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11342
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
Rocket_Salad - 02 March 2020 12:54 AM

[...]
In one of the tracks we perform live it is almost impossible to hit the Record Arm and Play buttons in time to the (Ableton) track, especially as I am playing with both hands. I would like to send a MIDI CC message (my apologies if my terminology here is incorrect, I am still new to the whole MIDI thing) from Ableton Live 9 to my Motif XF that arms the Recording and then sets it to play in time with the external (Ableton) track. If this is impossible I could probably hit the Record Arm button at some time before I need the loop to initiate, as long as I can send a MIDI CC Play message from Ableton to my Motif XF. I know Ableton isn’t really used on this forum, but if someone could provide me with information on any DAW I could work backwards from there.

I’m unaware of a MIDI message that would place the XF in record-armed status. However, there are MIDI Real-Time messages you might find useful…

FA = Start sequence from position 0
FB = Continue sequence from last position
FC = Stop playing sequence at current position

If the XF is pre-armed in Record mode, sending FA to it will have the same effect as pressing [Play].

 

Rocket_Salad -

Bonus Question: is there a way to send Part Select change messages via MIDI? All my Voices are set up (in PATTERN Mode) on the different parts. As mentioned I live loop the recordings, change parts and then record that part, loop and repeat. If I could send MIDI information from Ableton to my Motif XF to change parts as I go, that would assist me a lot.

To change Parts in an XF Song/Pattern via SysEx, send…
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 03 00 pp F7
where pp = Part, 00-0F hex (Part 1-16)
...with XF in MIXING mode (press [MIXING] button)

Another possibility is what I described in my second post of this thread…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/475656/
... but for the XF, the fifth byte of the SysEx message (model ID) should be 12 instead of 03. This method works from Play mode, Mixing mode isn’t required.

You’ll have to determine if the above works for your situation.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 05, 2020 @ 03:44 AM
Rocket_Salad
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-10-2011
status: Newcomer

Hi 5pinDIN:

Thank you so much (as always) for your reply.

I now understand that I need to send the hex FA (decimal 250) to start the sequence at position 1. My only question is how do I achieve that with Ableton? The midi channels only go up to 127. Do you have any idea what to put in the fields “Bnk” “Sub” and “Pgm” in Ableton?

I have looked at some of your other posts which explain where to find the bank select and program change messages (page 57 of the data list). Do I need to make use of these to send the “FA” signal?

In addition, I found the message you are talking about “FA[H]” on page 54 of the reference manual. It is listed under a subheading “SW4”: what is this referring to? 

I will need to use Max For Live to send the Sysex messages. I will dive down that route after this one.

My apologies for my lack of understanding.

Thank you again

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 05, 2020 @ 06:37 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11342
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
Rocket_Salad - 05 March 2020 03:44 AM

Hi 5pinDIN:

Thank you so much (as always) for your reply.

You’re welcome.

 

Rocket_Salad -

I now understand that I need to send the hex FA (decimal 250) to start the sequence at position 1. My only question is how do I achieve that with Ableton? The midi channels only go up to 127. Do you have any idea what to put in the fields “Bnk” “Sub” and “Pgm” in Ableton?

I have looked at some of your other posts which explain where to find the bank select and program change messages (page 57 of the data list). Do I need to make use of these to send the “FA” signal?

Those fields in the Ableton Live DAW are for executing Bank Select (BS) and Program Change (PC). They don’t relate to sending FA to Start the sequencer.

Based on your original post, it appears you have an XF. You might want to refer to the Data List for that model - BS/PC information is on page 127 of that manual.

 

Rocket_Salad -

In addition, I found the message you are talking about “FA[H]” on page 54 of the reference manual. It is listed under a subheading “SW4”: what is this referring to?

It seems you’re looking at the Data List for the MX model. The FA message is listed on page 123 of the XF Data List, under “SW3”. The “SW” references are to internal electronic switches of the various models, and that information isn’t useful for your purposes.

Manuals for the XF, including the Data List, are available here:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/contents/music_production/downloads/manuals/index.html?l=en&c=music_production&k=motif+xf

 

Rocket_Salad -

I will need to use Max For Live to send the Sysex messages. I will dive down that route after this one.

I don’t use Ableton, so I’ll leave details of its operation to others who are familiar with it. Hopefully another Motifator member with such insight will post. Otherwise, you might want to contact Ableton support directly.

However, I did a bit of online searching, and found a few things which might be relevant to sending the FA real-time message via Ableton…
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=113580
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=142964
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=233030

I’m afraid that’s the most I can offer in that regard.

 

Rocket_Salad -

My apologies for my lack of understanding.

Thank you again

There’s no need to apologize, MIDI can be a challenge at times. Best of luck in accomplishing your goals using it.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 06, 2020 @ 09:06 PM
Rocket_Salad
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-10-2011
status: Newcomer

Hello again 5pinDIN,

Thank you very much. I have viewed the other threads you posted and I think they put me on the right track.

As soon as I find a workaround I will post it in this forum.

Best regards

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 10, 2020 @ 03:40 AM
Rocket_Salad
Total Posts:  4
Joined  11-10-2011
status: Newcomer

Hi all,

For anyone looking up this thread I’ve managed to solve my problem.

I tried my best to use Max4Live to program in the midi values that I need to send to my Motif XF, but I could never get Max4Live to recognise the Motif as a port (even though it was available in the midi preferences window and selected); and I could never get the Motif to read the midi values I was trying to send out via Max4Live.

I then took a different route and downloaded Bome Midi Translator (I am not affiliated with them). This program is brilliant. You can set the program to record the midi from your keyboard and then to send that midi back to your keyboard given a midi trigger (from ableton/cubase/whatever). It’s around $70 but for my use it’s well worth it.

Thanks again 5pinDIN for your effort :)

P.S. you can find the midi translator here: https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: March 10, 2020 @ 08:11 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11342
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

I’m glad you found an approach that meets your needs.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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