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Viewing topic "Deleting samples Flashboard but no extra space?"

     
Posted on: November 01, 2019 @ 03:00 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Hi there,

I placed a lot of my faovrite voices into the XF, using new samples/ waveforms that are placed on two 1GB flashboards. Now they are almost full so wanted to make some space. I deleted some samples/ waveforms using the ‘delete one’ option. Though some prettig big waveforms (i.e. piano’s) the free/ used sample memory stays the same. Did I do anything wrong? The deleted samples do disappeare from the FL wavelist...,
Thanks for help/ advice. Kind regards,

Michiel

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Posted on: November 01, 2019 @ 05:22 PM
5pinDIN
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Joined  09-16-2010
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It’s difficult to determine what you did, or did not do, correctly.

First, did you check for duplicate Waveforms, as I previously suggested (http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/481539/)? If so, did you remove them? Note that Waveforms and samples are not the same thing. A Waveform is data that organizes samples in the Motif, but it is not the samples themselves. If there were duplicate Waveforms and you deleted them, that would not necessarily make a significant difference in flash memory usage.

I suggest that you check the Waveform List again, and verify that you removed all copies of any Waveforms you no longer want. Once that’s done, the associated samples should be gone - if large enough, the Free capacity of the flash module should increase.

Even if numerous samples are removed, if each one (keybank) is relatively small, they might have been scattered around the flash module’s memory space. In that case, removal might not significantly increase the Free space unless the “Optimize” Job is also applied. If Optimize is used, be sure to allow the procedure to complete - it might take significant time to do so. Interrupting the process can result in total loss of flash contents.

By the way, which OS version is installed on your XF?

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Posted on: February 13, 2020 @ 10:13 AM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Quite shure I have the latest OS, but will check to be certain. I did make some misstakes, could remove quite some duplicates. Finally I had to delete some of my favorite voices (with the samples), I found out that espcially drum sets (simbals, crash) use a lot of space/ sample memory.

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Posted on: February 13, 2020 @ 10:26 AM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

The OS version ...
Firmware 1.50.4
Kernel 2.6.10_mvl401 - 1.1.1. Motif_xsmc.98
Contents version 1.50.4

Is this all right or is there a later/ better update to execute?

Kind regards, Michiel

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Posted on: February 13, 2020 @ 11:26 AM
5pinDIN
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Michiel D - 13 February 2020 10:26 AM

The OS version ...
Firmware 1.50.4
Kernel 2.6.10_mvl401 - 1.1.1. Motif_xsmc.98
Contents version 1.50.4

Is this all right or is there a later/ better update to execute?

Kind regards, Michiel

OK, that’s the most recent OS.

If you need more storage space, then the Mutec flash modules might be an option, although not inexpensive. They’re available in 2GB capacity, so the XF can have 3GB if one is used to replace a 1GB module, or 4GB if both.

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Posted on: February 13, 2020 @ 02:05 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Thanks for your advice, didn’t know of this Mutec modules.
But ...  life is about making choices, all those banks of user voices, 2 GB of samples .. must be enough.
I decided to stop loading more stuff into the XF and start making music with it :  )
Kind regards, Michiel

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Posted on: February 13, 2020 @ 02:49 PM
5pinDIN
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Michiel D - 13 February 2020 02:05 PM

[...]I decided to stop loading more stuff into the XF and start making music with it :  )

I certainly can’t argue with that.  :-)

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Posted on: April 03, 2020 @ 12:21 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Hi there Mr 5pinDIN and other XF owners,

It still is a bit weird how the flashboard react. I checked the samples on the FL1 board, after deleting all samples and started over organising voices with samples. On FL1 there were copys of my piano samples. Removing the duplicates (20 fo the 30 samples on the FL board) there was no extra room on the board. 110 MB free did stay 110 MB free .. Strange .. or is it so that a duplicate sample doesn’t take any space (?) .. don’t know, if there’s any knowledge or advise on this point, ... thanks! Kind regards, Michiel

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Posted on: April 04, 2020 @ 12:35 PM
5pinDIN
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As I previously explained, Waveforms and samples are not the same thing. It’s samples which typically take up the majority of the space. If you remove only duplicate Waveforms, leaving a single copy with its associated sample(s), then the amount of memory freed will be minimal.

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Posted on: April 07, 2020 @ 10:40 AM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  186
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

It still feels a bit contra intuitive that Yamaha has chosen nomenclatura in contrast with most other brands/ synths/ samplers i.e. the meaning of ‘waveform’ and ‘samples’. But that aside .. when checking the FL board for duplicates (to gain some space on the board) .. is there a way to check if a waveform in the list does contain samples and what is the size of the sample data? (or that is just an ‘empty waveform duplicate which has no effect on the used space on the board).
I found out that on my FL2 board there is a list of more than 1000 waveforms, with a lot of duplicates....
I only want to get in to the tedious exercise of ‘cleaning up the list’ if this I gets me some space on the board.
Is there a way to check if a waveform actually does contain samples so removing them does get you some space on the FL board (without using a computer connected to the XF)?

Kind regards, Michiel

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Posted on: April 07, 2020 @ 11:55 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  11355
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
Michiel D - 07 April 2020 10:40 AM

It still feels a bit contra intuitive that Yamaha has chosen nomenclatura in contrast with most other brands/ synths/ samplers i.e. the meaning of ‘waveform’ and ‘samples’.

In fact, Waveforms can contain multiple samples, and Yamaha calls each sample a “Keybank”. It is what it is.

 

Michiel D -

But that aside .. when checking the FL board for duplicates (to gain some space on the board) .. is there a way to check if a waveform in the list does contain samples and what is the size of the sample data? (or that is just an ‘empty waveform duplicate which has no effect on the used space on the board).

The XF “Delete Same Name Waveforms” looks for Waveforms with the same name, it doesn’t check that they are otherwise identical. That is, the sample data might be different, or even completely missing. You could use the Integrated Sampling Job “Copy from Flash Memory” for each Waveform, and inspect the Keybanks and their size. Of course, with any significant number of duplicate Waveforms, that could take a ridiculous amount of time.

 

Michiel D -

I found out that on my FL2 board there is a list of more than 1000 waveforms, with a lot of duplicates....
I only want to get in to the tedious exercise of ‘cleaning up the list’ if this I gets me some space on the board.
Is there a way to check if a waveform actually does contain samples so removing them does get you some space on the FL board (without using a computer connected to the XF)?

If you don’t want to use a computer, then there’s no shortcut - delete duplicates one-by-one, and hope the effort is worthwhile. On the other hand, you could use the John Melas Waveform Editor to make the process easier.

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/456866/
--- and ---
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/476318/

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