Hi there fellow MOTIF people,

I guess this isn’t strictly about the MOTIF per se, but the MOTIF is very much involved with what I’m trying to do here

I am sending patch changes from my MOTIF XF8 to a TC Helicon VoiceLive Rack via MIDI during performances. I am editing my MIDI sequences in Cubase and downloading them to the MOTIF for performance. I have put this patch change at the start of each song so that the VoiceLive selects the right patch before each song starts. What I am finding is that in about 1 in 10 songs, the VoiceLive will select the wrong patch, which can result in difficulty and embarrassment for the singer. Originally I put the patch change for the VoiceLive at the first beat of the first bar of each sequence, but then I started encountering this problem. So, I put the patch change on the first beat of the second bar to see if that would fix it, however the problem still persists. Anybody got any suggestions as to how I can ensure that the VoiceLive selects the right patch 100% of the time, instead of 90% of the time?

Regards,
Grant

synthmax - 11 February 2019 08:06 PM

[...] What I am finding is that in about 1 in 10 songs, the VoiceLive will select the wrong patch [...]

Is the problem consistently with the same XF sequence, or is it occurring more randomly?

Thank you for your swift reply 5pinDIN,

It seems to be quite random, as it appears to happen with any of the songs I have produced. I am using quite a long MIDI cable between the MOTIF and the VoiceLive, could that be causing it?

Regards,
Grant

MIDI is fairly robust. Unless the cable is extremely long or of poor quality, it’s unlikely to be the cause. A length of 20-25 feet typically is trouble free, and for good quality cables twice that is possible.

I’d suggest you try inserting a blank measure at the start of your sequences, then place the Program Change message at the second beat of that measure. Let us know of that resolves the problem.

O.K. Thanks. Understood. Question though, why the second beat of the second measure?

synthmax - 13 February 2019 03:38 AM

O.K. Thanks. Understood. Question though, why the second beat of the second measure?

To clarify…
Insert a blank measure in front of the sequence, place the PC message at the second beat of that now first (and otherwise empty) measure.

Not knowing how long the Helicon rack unit takes to respond to a PC message, that hopefully will cause the PC to be sent and acted on clear of other data.

Understood. So the whole idea is to send the Program Control messages to the VoiceLive and ONLY that in the first measure of the sequence. However, there are of course actually three messages being sent, i.e.: CC 0 (BankSelect MSB), CC 32 (BankSelect LSB) and CC 115 (Control 115). Should these messages be staggered, i.e.: The first message on 1.2, the second on 1.3, and the third on 1.4, or, all together, as I have them now? If they should be staggered, then do you think that a particular order would be best? Sorry to keep asking about this but I have about thirty-odd songs that I am going to have go back to and edit so things will work reliably and my singer will stop whining about the problem. ;)

Without knowing specifically why the VoiceLive unit is behaving the way it is, my suggestion is that you experiment. Start with all the messages on the second beat of the added first measure, and apply that approach to just two of the song sequences. Then try alternately sending those two sequences to the VoiceLive, over and over, and see if the problem is resolved. If not, try separating the messages to separate beats. If either method seems to work reliably, then modify the remaining sequences the same way. That way you haven’t wasted time modifying all the “thirty-odd” ones if this technique doesn’t work.

Good ol’ trial and error troubleshooting. Yep. Sounds like a plan. I will give that a try and let you know how I go. Many thanks. :)

I was wondering what the CC 115 message was about, since that number is considered undefined, and what it does depends on the manufacturer.

I found this:
https://kb.musictribe.com/musickb/view/article/all/en_US/VoiceLive-3-Selecting-Presets-and-Banks-via-MIDI-228155247

You might want to read it, and instead of using CC 115 ("Step"), do Bank Select and Program Change instead.

With the VoiceLive Rack it’s possible to have different “Steps” within each patch that have different setups for the VoiceLive’s various effects within them. So CC 115 is needed to ensure the first “Step” for that patch/song is selected. In each song I have different “Steps” for the Verse, the Chorus and so on.

synthmax - 13 February 2019 10:01 PM

With the VoiceLive Rack it’s possible to have different “Steps” within each patch that have different setups for the VoiceLive’s various effects within them. So CC 115 is needed to ensure the first “Step” for that patch/song is selected. In each song I have different “Steps” for the Verse, the Chorus and so on.

OK, that wasn’t clear from the the information I linked to. Processing the “Step” command might be what’s causing the problem. Hopefully the added measure will give things a bit more time and resolve it.

I think I may have resolved the issue. I took eight songs and added a bar of silence, moved the CC 0 (BankSelect MSB) and CC 32 (BankSelect LSB) to 1.2 and CC 115 (Control 115) to 1.3 to each of those songs. I then put those songs into a song chain and stepped through through that chain starting the sequence for each song. (Thus simulating a performance) I started the sequencer over 100 times. I am happy to report that the correct patch on the VoiceLive for each song was selected correctly every time! Thanks very much for your support and guidance 5pinDIN! Most appreciated ! :)

You’re welcome - I’m glad that approach did the trick.