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Viewing topic "Cant Hear FX in Perform mode - why?"

     
Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 12:47 AM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

When im in PERFORM mode, i can’t hear the effects i’ve saved on the VOICE in VOICE mode.

So, i’ve created the Organ sound i want in VOICE mode, with delay.
I assigned that VOICE to my patch in PERFORM mode.
I can hear the Organ, but not the delay..

what am i missing?

how do you hear FX you’ve assigned in VOICE mode, in PERFORM mode using that same assigned VOICE?

thanks in advance!

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Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 02:50 AM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

what i ultimately want to do is create a set of custom patches on my Motif XS6 for a live show i am producing.

I want:

piano with an organ layered under it for 4 octaves.
i want a tempo synced delay on the Organ.
i want strings for the last 2 octaves.

i will create diff versions of this patch for diff songs, and i’ll want to be able to change and store the tempo on each patch so i dont have to manually change anything when i move from song to song aka patch to patch.

could any one explain how to do this? even at a basic level, like what mode i’ll need to be in etc?
im new to Motif, slowly getting my head around it.. but a long way to go, and little time!

my understanding was.. create the voice in voice mode, add the fx, and save it..
assing that voice in performance mode.

but i cant hear the fx of the voice that i have saved.. so obviously somethings not right..

any help greatly appreciated..

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Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 04:19 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10949
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

It’s important to understand the difference between Insertion effects and System effects. Proper usage of “Parameter with Voice” can make a difference as well.

These support articles should help:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/copying_voice_data_to_a_performance_or_mixing_program

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/insertion_effects_differ_from_the_system_effects

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/motif_xs_parameter_with_voice

Those and other support articles for the XS can be found here:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/xs_articles/

If anything in the articles is unclear, we should be able to help further.

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Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 11:40 AM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

thankyou kindly 5pinDIN! very helpful.

i am now left wondering, what is the best mode to work with to build a show file for this band given my vision for the keyboard splits and fx. PERFORMANCE?

i understand how mixers work, so i’d like to utilise MIXING mode.. but what is the best MODE to use that with the Motif - im sure that question could be worded much better!

bascially, its not clear to me the way the MODES work, or more clearly, what is the best MODE for the job.

is SONG mode better for laying out a set of 12 diff patches? (new patch for each song in a live show environment)
or is PERFORM mode the place to be?
VOICE mode only seems ok when you dont need to split or layer the keyboard, right?

obviously i have a lot to learn.. but battling through.

if you’re able to intuit where i’m not making the right connections to the logic of the motif, i would love
to hear your further thoughts..

i know once i understand certain things, the pennys will drop.

ALSO - i want to be able to save these patches to USB, and load them on to diff Motif XS that i will hire in diff locations.. 

cheers!

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Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 02:14 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10949
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
cr38or - 01 February 2019 11:40 AM

thankyou kindly 5pinDIN! very helpful.

You’re welcome!

 

cr38or - 01 February 2019 11:40 AM

i am now left wondering, what is the best mode to work with to build a show file for this band given my vision for the keyboard splits and fx. PERFORMANCE?

i understand how mixers work, so i’d like to utilise MIXING mode.. but what is the best MODE to use that with the Motif - im sure that question could be worded much better!

bascially, its not clear to me the way the MODES work, or more clearly, what is the best MODE for the job.

is SONG mode better for laying out a set of 12 diff patches? (new patch for each song in a live show environment)
or is PERFORM mode the place to be?
VOICE mode only seems ok when you dont need to split or layer the keyboard, right?

obviously i have a lot to learn.. but battling through.

if you’re able to intuit where i’m not making the right connections to the logic of the motif, i would love
to hear your further thoughts..

Voice mode can accommodate splits and layers, within limits. A Voice is composed of up to eight Elements. If a sound requires fewer than eight, the Oscillator Wave for the remaining Elements could be assigned to another sound. However, that approach is not typical.

In a Performance, a Voice can be assigned to each of four Parts. In a Song/Pattern Mixing, up to 16 Parts are available. An advantage to a Mixing is that switching from one sound to another can be done without a “glitch” - that’s not the case in Performance or Voice modes, where the previous sound is cut off when a new one is selected. Therefore, whether to use Performance or Song/Pattern modes might be determined by how rapidly you need to transition from one sound to another.

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/using_a_mixing_setup_for_multiple_sounds_live

While a Mixing can have up to 16 different Voices, one per Part, splits and layers reduce that number. For example, if each sound you program has a single split, requiring two Parts, then of course only eight sounds could be accessed in such a Mixing.

 

cr38or - 01 February 2019 11:40 AM

i know once i understand certain things, the pennys will drop.

I don’t want to overwhelm you, so I’ll leave the mode selection issue at that for now, until you’ve had time to explore things a bit more.

 

cr38or - 01 February 2019 11:40 AM

ALSO - i want to be able to save these patches to USB, and load them on to diff Motif XS that i will hire in diff locations.. 

cheers!

If there are no samples involved, there should be no problem in saving an “All” file to a USB flash drive, and loading it to another XS. With samples, it would be important that the second XS had sufficiently sized DIMMs (SDRAM) to accommodate the data.

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Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 04:06 PM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

super helpful 5pinDIN!

ive had some breakthroughs today since taking on your guidance..
im still deep in the trenchs here tho..

i feel like perfomance mode ‘may’ have been ok.. althoguh i’ve hit a bit of a wall that i think is a limtiation in performance mode, but im hoping not an overall limitaion of the Motif XS.

my question is - can one sound have two different delays assigned to it? if so what mode do i need to be in for that to be possible?

reason being - i am coming from a mainstage set up, in mainstage i assign two seperate delays to my organ (that ‘repeat’ at differnt times) to achieve the sound im going for.

i’ve managed to assign one delay in performance mode, great! but i need the second to complete the sound.. i tried to do with the reverb as that was the only other effect that seems available, but the sound is wrong.

do you get what im saying? can two seperate delays be assigned in any way shape or form?

if so, which mode would would u advise?

overwhlem me, im ready!

muchly appreciated..

cheers!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 01, 2019 @ 07:41 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10949
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

I think I understand what you’re looking for. If I’m correct, you want the two delays to be applied independently of each other, but simultaneously.

Each Part/Voice in a Performance can have two Insertion Effects. The two of them can be the same Type of effect, but with different Parameters (delay time, in this case). Ignoring the insL (vocoder) choice, those effects can be connected in series (insA>B or insB>A) or parallel. I believe what you’re looking for is the “parallel” connection.

See the XS Owner’s Manual, Effect Connection Settings - [SF1] Connect on pages 107-108, especially (2) INSERTION CONNECT (Insertion Connection) on page 108.

I hope that fits your need.

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Posted on: February 02, 2019 @ 12:21 AM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

“I think I understand what you’re looking for. If I’m correct, you want the two delays to be applied independently of each other, but simultaneously.”

yes that is correct..  however, i decided to stay in PERFORMANCE mode, and as i was messing around with the delay setting, i found this combination (see pic attached) which did the job. it gave me my 2nd repeat without having to set up a new effect (easily the highlight of my day!).

im going to check out your other suggestions now tho too. thankyou..

in general i made a fair bit of progress today, howvere, one main thing im now stuck on is getting the right octaves on my keyboard splits.. it seems when i try NOTE SHIFT it affects the whole patch, and not just the voice im trying shift the octave for..

PERFORMANCE mode seems to be working for me, if i can just get these octave splits working properly. i also need to learn how to tweak each voice sound to get each voice sounding as good as it was in VOICE mode.. but yeh, i can work with what i have for now, if i can just sort the octave splits.

any advice welcome.

really appreciate your time!

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Posted on: February 02, 2019 @ 04:34 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  10949
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
cr38or - 02 February 2019 12:21 AM

“I think I understand what you’re looking for. If I’m correct, you want the two delays to be applied independently of each other, but simultaneously.”

yes that is correct..  however, i decided to stay in PERFORMANCE mode, and as i was messing around with the delay setting, i found this combination (see pic attached) which did the job. it gave me my 2nd repeat without having to set up a new effect (easily the highlight of my day!).

OK - I’m glad you found settings that work for you.

 

cr38or - 02 February 2019 12:21 AM

im going to check out your other suggestions now tho too. thankyou..

Before you do that - my previous post gave incorrect manual page references for the effects connections, which I’ve now corrected.

 

cr38or - 02 February 2019 12:21 AM

in general i made a fair bit of progress today, howvere, one main thing im now stuck on is getting the right octaves on my keyboard splits.. it seems when i try NOTE SHIFT it affects the whole patch, and not just the voice im trying shift the octave for..

In Performance mode Note Shift is applied on a per-Part basis. Applying the shift in one Part shouldn’t affect any of the other three Parts of the Performance.

See Voice Settings for each Part - [SF1] Voice on pages 151-152 of the XS Owner’s Manual, (8) Note Shift. Let us know if you still have a problem with that.

 

cr38or - 02 February 2019 12:21 AM

PERFORMANCE mode seems to be working for me, if i can just get these octave splits working properly. i also need to learn how to tweak each voice sound to get each voice sounding as good as it was in VOICE mode.. but yeh, i can work with what i have for now, if i can just sort the octave splits.

Getting a Voice to sound the same in a Part of a Performance as it did in Voice mode relates to using “Parameter with Voice” correctly, and the effects settings. The support articles I previously linked to should help.

Note that it’s important to turn on “Parameter with Voice” before selecting the Voice for a Part. If you turn it on after choosing the Voice, temporarily select another Voice, then reselect the one you want.

As to the effects, while Insertion effects are part of a Voice, System effects in a Performance are shared by all the Parts. Therefore, if the Voices use different System effects in Voice mode, some compromising may be required when programming them for a Performance.

 

cr38or - 02 February 2019 12:21 AM

any advice welcome.

really appreciate your time!

No problem, I’m glad to help.

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Posted on: February 04, 2019 @ 10:31 AM
cr38or
Total Posts:  8
Joined  01-31-2019
status: Newcomer

i have my show mostly progammed and am getting more comfortable wiht this machine thankyou..

from here its refinments and tweaks for the fun stuff..

im using PERFORM mode for my show.. so my questions relate to being in that mode.

i already have one delay assigned to an organ PART 2
sitting under a Piano PART 1

i want to assing a completely new delay with diff settings (from the organ delay) to the Piano on PART 1 and i want the ASSIGNABLE function 2 button to control that delay coming on / off

ideas on how to acheive that?

im having troubles working out how to program those assignable functions clearly, esepcailly with realtion to turn a designated effect on or off..

basically can i have two seperate delays running in one USER patch in PERFORM mode, say USER A 1 (for example) but across two seperate parts, PART 1 - unique delay PART 2 - unique delay.. within that USER patch..

make sense??

cheers!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 04, 2019 @ 12:52 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  10949
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
cr38or - 04 February 2019 10:31 AM

i have my show mostly progammed and am getting more comfortable wiht this machine thankyou..

You’re welcome.

 

cr38or -

from here its refinments and tweaks for the fun stuff..

im using PERFORM mode for my show.. so my questions relate to being in that mode.

i already have one delay assigned to an organ PART 2
sitting under a Piano PART 1

i want to assing a completely new delay with diff settings (from the organ delay) to the Piano on PART 1 and i want the ASSIGNABLE function 2 button to control that delay coming on / off

ideas on how to acheive that?

im having troubles working out how to program those assignable functions clearly, esepcailly with realtion to turn a designated effect on or off..

basically can i have two seperate delays running in one USER patch in PERFORM mode, say USER A 1 (for example) but across two seperate parts, PART 1 - unique delay PART 2 - unique delay.. within that USER patch..

Having different Insertion Effects for Parts has to be done by programming User Voices. The Assignable Function (AF1 and AF2) buttons can control effect Parameters in a Voice. Those Voices can then be STOREd, and used as Parts in a Performance.

Start programming a User Voice, including the desired delay effect for Insert A or B. Once the effect is programmed, “A.Func 1” or “A.Func 2” should be selected as a controller Source under the Controller Set. The Destination should be set to “insA-Dry/Wet” or “insB-Dry/Wet”, as appropriate. To turn off the delay, Depth should be a large negative number - a setting of “-64” should ensure that when the button is pressed the delay will be defeated. Choose “latch” or “momentary” Mode for AF1/AF2. STORE the Voice.

Select the User Voice for one of the Performance Parts. Verify AF1/AF2 “latch” or “momentary” Mode under Edit Common. Edit the RcvSwitch (Receive Switch) setting for “A.Function 1” (or 2) for each of the Parts, as desired. See page 158 of the XS Owner’s Manual, MIDI Receive settings - [F6].

The XS Data List details Parameters for the various effects. You might want to download the PDF if you haven’t already.

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