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Viewing topic "Midi 2.0 ????"

     
Posted on: January 30, 2019 @ 08:24 PM
lastmonk
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From what I hear Midi 2.0 will be backwardly compatible with Midi 1.0.

But will Midi 2.0 files be able to be processed by Midi 1.0 compliant devices?

i.e if someone creates a Midi 2.0 file on some new device in the future, will Midi 1.0 compliant devices be able to process the Midi 1.0 compliant info that is inside of the Midi 2.0 file?

Or put another way, will Midi 1.0 Midi readers be able read 2.0 Midi files????

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Posted on: January 31, 2019 @ 05:35 AM
5pinDIN
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MIDI 2.0 is in the prototyping stage, so exact capabilities and compatibility are yet to be determined.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2019/1/23/midi-20-announced-by-midi-manufacturers-association-and-the-association-of-music-electronics-industry

You might find this interesting:
https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-manufacturers-association-mma-adopts-midi-capability-inquiry-midi-ci-specification

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Posted on: January 31, 2019 @ 11:13 AM
lastmonk
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5pinDIN - 31 January 2019 05:35 AM

MIDI 2.0 is in the prototyping stage, so exact capabilities and compatibility are yet to be determined.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2019/1/23/midi-20-announced-by-midi-manufacturers-association-and-the-association-of-music-electronics-industry

You might find this interesting:
https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-manufacturers-association-mma-adopts-midi-capability-inquiry-midi-ci-specification

Yes, Yes very interested in this 5pinDIN thanx.  That Midi Capability Inquiry looks like it can do a lot of good.  But in the wrong hands......???

It makes sense that Midi 2.0 compliant devices will be able to read and render both Midi 2.0 and Midi 1.0.  I understand that if the Midi-CI can’t find 2.0 capability it will just fall back to 1.0 spec,

But.......  If I’m on a Midi 1.0 compliant device or software and someone gives me a file that was created on a 2.0 compliant device or in 2.0 compliant software will a 1.0 Midi reader be able to make any sense out of a 2.0 Midi file????  Will a Midi 2.0 compliant component be required to have the option to export to Midi 1.0 ?

If not, I can see hardware/software ghettos being created, of where the 2.0 world can talk to the 1.0 world, but the 1.0 world cannot talk to the 2.0 world.  Forced obsolescence because no ability to forward communicate.

Also, I can’t help but to be a little squeamish about possibilities for DRM, Metering, and SAAS hooks being added right to MIDI spec :-( i.e.  Web extensions WTF??

Notice on the invite for the work on the Midi 2.0 specification that it is largely to Vendors and Manufacturers.  And I know some Manufacturers and Vendors are in fact musicians., but I hope there is a lot more representation and contribution from a diverse set of knowledgeable musicians (who are not manufacturers or vendors).

I’m definitely going to be watching very closely.  As long as there is nothing in the new protocol that will keep current software and hardware from reading midi files that will be created in future hardware and software I guess what could go wrong.

But if they start talking backward compatibility only and no forward compatibility options, that should throw up some red flags.

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Posted on: January 31, 2019 @ 11:53 AM
5pinDIN
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I believe it will be likely that communication protocols will work bidirectionally between MIDI 1.0 and MIDI 2.0 devices, to the degree that can be accomplished. Unlike with computers, MIDI gear is usually kept by users long-term, and MIDI manufacturers typically don’t want to intentionally anger owners of older products.

As to file compatibility, that’s a different matter. Things like SMFs probably won’t be a problem. However, I have several MIDI devices, most of which have limited ability to handle a file from another device. Heck, even my XS can’t read an XF file, and they’re about as close to each other as any two different models might be.

It will be up to software producers to determine any translation that might be necessary for general file compatibility between MIDI 1.0 and 2.0, once 2.0 is a solid standard.

My suggestion is to be patient, and express your concern if/when you determine there’s an actual compatibility issue.

By the way, if anyone wants to have a good idea of what goes into a MIDI specification…
https://www.midi.org/articles-old/the-midi-association-offers-free-download-of-the-midi-1-0-specifications-document

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Posted on: January 31, 2019 @ 12:44 PM
lastmonk
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5pinDIN - 31 January 2019 11:53 AM

I believe it will be likely that communication protocols will work bidirectionally between MIDI 1.0 and MIDI 2.0 devices, to the degree that can be accomplished. Unlike with computers, MIDI gear is usually kept by users long-term, and MIDI manufacturers typically don’t want to intentionally anger owners of older products.

As to file compatibility, that’s a different matter. Things like SMFs probably won’t be a problem. However, I have several MIDI devices, most of which have limited ability to handle a file from another device. Heck, even my XS can’t read an XF file, and they’re about as close to each other as any two different models might be.

It will be up to software producers to determine any translation that might be necessary for general file compatibility between MIDI 1.0 and 2.0, once 2.0 is a solid standard.

My suggestion is to be patient, and express your concern if/when you determine there’s an actual compatibility issue.

By the way, if anyone wants to have a good idea of what goes into a MIDI specification…
https://www.midi.org/articles-old/the-midi-association-offers-free-download-of-the-midi-1-0-specifications-document

Good advice.  Thanx.  Yea, I can definitely see the bidirectional thing working in real-time between at 1.0 compliant component and a 2.0 compliant component. That kind of protocol translation is (somewhat) straight forward.  And I guess on the file compatibility tip, worse comes to worse it will create a product opportunity for somebody.  i.e.  writing a midi file converter utility that converts from 2.0 to 1.0.  And if the 2.0 midi specs are completely public that solves part of the problem.  But the next thing to deal with will be the vendor’s proprietary binary format that they write the standard midi information into.

Like you pointed out XS <- XF conversion problems!!!  Will the vendors make their binary formats easily or even freely available so that conversion utilities can be written?  Or will the public Midi 2.0 standard content be held hostage by proprietary vendor binary file formats??  i.e.  if the vendor that is implementing the standard and deploying it in their own proprietary format chooses not to provide a 2.0 -> 1.0 or 1.0 -> 2.0 file conversion utility then we’re screwed....?

I don’t mind coding my own readers and writers as long as the data structures, file & record layouts are properly and cleanly documented.

And you gotta know, at the end of the day my primary concern is am I going to be able to put one of those new fangled Midi 2.0 files on a 128mb memory card and read it into my QY100 sequencer.  LOL

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