Hmm…

Sometimes these Yamaha cycles have a pattern.  Now that they’ve released
Montage lite, does this mean that Yamaha might be working on the
true successor to the Motif???

Or Maybe Yamaha might add to the next major release of the Montage all of the stuff they took out of the Motif (i.e.  full blown sequencer, pattern sequencer, integrated sampler)?

There does seem to be some kind of pattern with Yamaha if we go all the
way back to the SY series, Yamaha EX5, etc.

Or will the future flagships never really measure up to the Motif?

Or are we Motif owners sitting on the best that Yamaha will ever produce LOL?

I’m thinking the Motif/MOX are just going to be like fine wine that just gets better over time and will reach cult status , highly sought after and coveted at some point in the future

Viva Motif!

lastmonk - 14 September 2018 10:09 PM

Hmm…

Sometimes these Yamaha cycles have a pattern.

Don’t you know? Montage is a modern SY99. :D MODX is a SY99Le. Really! :)
The new performance workstation concept isn’t wrong I think. The new touch GUI is excellent and central, ergonomic, look like a DAW software, but only small on a 7” screen.
I also miss the Pattern SEQ and the DAW control, but the new ARP. section and control features is more rich. Audio i/o and usb digital audio features are big extras. These are very useful!
But a little bit, the Yamaha may be innovate with a modelled organ section, plus a sophisticated Leslie-tube amplifier FX in these keyboards like a Nord, or Roland. These are very hot things in a keyboardist’s eye. More and more important than articulated guitars etc...! There is Reface YC. It’s could have been a good hit to embed in MODX.
Never mind! Then comes the new Reface mkII too… (-;

Hi --

I think Yamaha has roughly the same product development cycle and feature tiering as before—maybe a longer time around the loop.

In this regard, MODX is more than I expected. Pure Analog Circuit aside, it has the same waveforms, performances and arps as the Montage, so I expect raw synthesis and sound on par with Montage.

That said, here’s my guess about the future. I think Montage 2.5 is now the finished first gen Montage. Yamaha is working on gen two. I don’t expect to see very many future updates to Montage gen one or to MODX. Yamaha only updates mid-range products with bug fixes, so with MODX, what you see is what you get.

That doesn’t mean MODX is a bad product. It’s quite a good keyboard and I will probably buy one to replace my MOX6.

Pure speculation.

All the best—pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

pjd - 15 September 2018 02:05 PM

Hi --

I think Yamaha has roughly the same product development cycle and feature tiering as before—maybe a longer time around the loop.

In this regard, MODX is more than I expected. Pure Analog Circuit aside, it has the same waveforms, performances and arps as the Montage, so I expect raw synthesis and sound on par with Montage.

That said, here’s my guess about the future. I think Montage 2.5 is now the finished first gen Montage. Yamaha is working on gen two. I don’t expect to see very many future updates to Montage gen one or to MODX. Yamaha only updates mid-range products with bug fixes, so with MODX, what you see is what you get.

That doesn’t mean MODX is a bad product. It’s quite a good keyboard and I will probably buy one to replace my MOX6.

Pure speculation.

All the best—pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

There’s no sign Yamaha is thinking of reversing their strategic decision to move from Motif XF to Montage and the features they added vs deleted.  An onboard sampling ability would be most useful to me, I don’t use the full blown sequencer functionality anyway so I don’t care.  Yamaha decided most people don’t care about the sequencer, or don’t care enough to not buy it.  Pros don’t record professional products onboard, so its really for amateurs and quick scratch pad type stuff.  Jmo, could be wrong.

I’d rather they integrate other synth engines like true VA or a Clone engine to their AWM2+ FM-X aka Kronos.

motidave - 15 September 2018 04:26 PM

pjd - 15 September 2018 02:05 PM

Hi --

I think Yamaha has roughly the same product development cycle and feature tiering as before—maybe a longer time around the loop.

In this regard, MODX is more than I expected. Pure Analog Circuit aside, it has the same waveforms, performances and arps as the Montage, so I expect raw synthesis and sound on par with Montage.

That said, here’s my guess about the future. I think Montage 2.5 is now the finished first gen Montage. Yamaha is working on gen two. I don’t expect to see very many future updates to Montage gen one or to MODX. Yamaha only updates mid-range products with bug fixes, so with MODX, what you see is what you get.

That doesn’t mean MODX is a bad product. It’s quite a good keyboard and I will probably buy one to replace my MOX6.

Pure speculation.

All the best—pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

There’s no sign Yamaha is thinking of reversing their strategic decision to move from Motif XF to Montage and the features they added vs deleted.  An onboard sampling ability would be most useful to me, I don’t use the full blown sequencer functionality anyway so I don’t care.  Yamaha decided most people don’t care about the sequencer, or don’t care enough to not buy it.  Pros don’t record professional products onboard, so its really for amateurs and quick scratch pad type stuff.  Jmo, could be wrong.

I’d rather they integrate other synth engines like true VA or a Clone engine to their AWM2+ FM-X aka Kronos.

Interesting points, I do disagree though about how (some pros) use the full blown sequencer especially the pattern sequencer.  Some of my audiences are very entertained by real time pattern/layering and sequencing. It can be very hot.  Being able to create and layer loops is a staple for certain kinds of synth performances.

Sure I heard all of the talk about Yamaha taking sequencing and sampling out because of low customer demand, but I think that was just a smoke screen for the fact that Yamaha really wants all their customers to buy Cubase which in the long run gets Yamaha into the SAAS (Software As A Service).  Preparing for the day when musicians will be paying a monthly fee just for the privilege of editing their own audio/midi recordings.

djuice - 15 September 2018 11:26 AM

lastmonk - 14 September 2018 10:09 PM

Hmm…

Sometimes these Yamaha cycles have a pattern.

Don’t you know? Montage is a modern SY99. :D MODX is a SY99Le. Really! :)
The new performance workstation concept isn’t wrong I think. The new touch GUI is excellent and central, ergonomic, look like a DAW software, but only small on a 7” screen.
I also miss the Pattern SEQ and the DAW control, but the new ARP. section and control features is more rich. Audio i/o and usb digital audio features are big extras. These are very useful!
But a little bit, the Yamaha may be innovate with a modelled organ section, plus a sophisticated Leslie-tube amplifier FX in these keyboards like a Nord, or Roland. These are very hot things in a keyboardist’s eye. More and more important than articulated guitars etc...! There is Reface YC. It’s could have been a good hit to embed in MODX.
Never mind! Then comes the new Reface mkII too… (-;

LOL I thought the MO-DX was close to SY99, I didn’t realize how close he, he, he

http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/sy99.php
http://www.polynominal.com/site/studio/gear/synth/yamaha_sy99/yamaha-sy99-manual.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_SY99
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHut1_F4eI

I guess this really reinforces my theory, the Motif will be back in about 4-6 years :-)

lastmonk - 15 September 2018 11:01 PM

I didn’t realize how close he, he, he

It was a joke, but SY99 was an FM+PCM synth like the new MODX in a narrow perspective. :)
But, also look at the Motif ES for example. It was similar with PLG boards, like DX etc. MODX is compatible with Motif sounds and waveforms = a modern reincarnation. This is very simple thing. :)
MODX FAQ - USA Yamaha page

djuice - 16 September 2018 03:18 PM

lastmonk - 15 September 2018 11:01 PM

I didn’t realize how close he, he, he

It was a joke, but SY99 was an FM+PCM synth like the new MODX in a narrow perspective. :)
But, also look at the Motif ES for example. It was similar with PLG boards, like DX etc. MODX is compatible with Motif sounds and waveforms = a modern reincarnation. This is very simple thing. :)
MODX FAQ - USA Yamaha page

O for sure, I know its a narrow comparison., but conceptually its in the same ballpark.  And from a relative perspective the SY99 was back then kind-a like the modx is now???  LOL
yeah the technology has improved, memory is cheaper display screens are bigger and with more colors but the basic innovation FM + AWM is at the bottom of it all.

And it does seem like in a cyclic way Yamaha goes back takes a old concept that they know how to execute, modernizes it, gives it a new name, and voila a new flagship emerges!

That’s why I suspect that we’ll see a new Motif at some point in the future.  It just to successful of an instrument not to revisit :-)

lastmonk - 15 September 2018 10:56 PM

motidave - 15 September 2018 04:26 PM

pjd - 15 September 2018 02:05 PM

Hi --

I think Yamaha has roughly the same product development cycle and feature tiering as before—maybe a longer time around the loop.

In this regard, MODX is more than I expected. Pure Analog Circuit aside, it has the same waveforms, performances and arps as the Montage, so I expect raw synthesis and sound on par with Montage.

That said, here’s my guess about the future. I think Montage 2.5 is now the finished first gen Montage. Yamaha is working on gen two. I don’t expect to see very many future updates to Montage gen one or to MODX. Yamaha only updates mid-range products with bug fixes, so with MODX, what you see is what you get.

That doesn’t mean MODX is a bad product. It’s quite a good keyboard and I will probably buy one to replace my MOX6.

Pure speculation.

All the best—pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

There’s no sign Yamaha is thinking of reversing their strategic decision to move from Motif XF to Montage and the features they added vs deleted.  An onboard sampling ability would be most useful to me, I don’t use the full blown sequencer functionality anyway so I don’t care.  Yamaha decided most people don’t care about the sequencer, or don’t care enough to not buy it.  Pros don’t record professional products onboard, so its really for amateurs and quick scratch pad type stuff.  Jmo, could be wrong.

I’d rather they integrate other synth engines like true VA or a Clone engine to their AWM2+ FM-X aka Kronos.

Interesting points, I do disagree though about how (some pros) use the full blown sequencer especially the pattern sequencer.  Some of my audiences are very entertained by real time pattern/layering and sequencing. It can be very hot.  Being able to create and layer loops is a staple for certain kinds of synth performances.

Sure I heard all of the talk about Yamaha taking sequencing and sampling out because of low customer demand, but I think that was just a smoke screen for the fact that Yamaha really wants all their customers to buy Cubase which in the long run gets Yamaha into the SAAS (Software As A Service).  Preparing for the day when musicians will be paying a monthly fee just for the privilege of editing their own audio/midi recordings.

you could be right, i think they will try to make their products particularly friendly with their own DAW.  whether that becomes SAAS or simply continue to sell licenses, they benefit if people buy their DAW.
So they’ll give a stripped version to entice people to upgrade. 

I do think they looked at the cost of sequencer, both in terms of the added engine/hw and firmware development cost, and decided that is a good place to make a significant business equation improvement to their margins so they can better continue to deliver the primary purpose of a synth - which is to generate sound. there is a segment of users that use the sequencer for live performance - not just as a 16 voice synthesizer but actually using the sequencer - Yamaha decided they are odd man out in the equation. 

I don’t use a sequencer for live performance - anything done in it can be done on a computer.  Can MODX play a file that is created in DAW and transferred onboard?

MODX can play both SMF and WAV/AIFF files.

This is one area, though, where the Montage/MODX user interface could be improved. Some users (myself included) like to play over finished backing tracks for either practice or performance.

Currently, you have to menu dive to play a WAV/AIFF file which resides on a USB flash drive. This is a real hassle for live performance. If you’re in front of an audience, you don’t have time to menu dive.

One possible solution is to extend Live Set buttons such that a button remembers the Performance (voice), path to the WAV/AIFF file on the USB jump drive, the desired audio level and auto-start status. Then a user could hit one button and jump right into the tune. The button needs to remember the audio level so one can balance the level across backing tracks (which could be soft, loud or anywhere in between).

If the Yamaha engineers had to play in front of an audience (!), they would find many ways to improve the Montage/MODX user interface.

All the best—pj