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Viewing topic "MainStage and XF Song mode"

   
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Posted on: August 13, 2018 @ 11:39 AM
EricMonroe
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Thanks to 5pinDin, my entire nights’ performance in the XF is neatly packaged in Song Mode. Going from voice to voice, samples etc without any break in sound. (literally 30 songs and each mostly using up all 16 parts)

However, my biggest issue is that… I am often lost in each song as to which part button takes me to the next voice I need… and the screen list is not really reflecting which button correlates to the correct voice. (so I have made extensive notes but its overwhelming and mistakes happen)

Soo… that brings me to an idea.... has anyone tried using Apples Mainstage to control the parts in SONG MODE… so then I could clearly notate and ID where my next voice is located etc. (and even have it step forward and backward thru voices in the song as needed)

I know its a long shot, but I thought I would throw this out there.

thanks, Eric

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Posted on: August 13, 2018 @ 04:04 PM
5pinDIN
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I’ll let others comment on the use of MainStage.

I presume you’re using Song Mixings to organize your Voices for live play. Have you considered renaming Voices used in some of the Parts? That would convert them to Mix Voices. Each Mixing can have up to 16 Mix Voices, and a total of 256 are available. You don’t have to rename all of the Voices in a Song, just the ones that would offer a clue, as desired. Adding a short prefix to a name might be enough.

If you want to try this, you might copy a Song to an unused location, so you’re not working with something important.
Then…
1) Select the Song
2) Press [MIXING]
3) Select a Part [1]~[16]
4) Press [F6] (Vce Edit)
5) Press [F1](General) > [SF1](Name) (may already be selected)
6) Press [SF6](CHAR)
7) Edit the Name as desired (an attached USB ASCII keyboard makes this easy)

STORE any change you want to keep.
Additional Names could be edited if wanted.

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/mix_voice_bank_mixv

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 09:34 AM
EricMonroe
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Yes organizing live performances in song mode.

So I will attach two images.

One image is from the motif. Many of the rows are blank. So I have no idea what voice is where.

The other image works much better from the John melas software where a person can see the midi column and know that bye pressing a part say 9, that I have many voices, probably splits and layers.

(Also in these images you can see where I tested using the mixed voice and changed the name. As per your suggestion in this thread)

Is there a way to get a better View of what’s going on and not have any blank rows on the XF? Thanks Eric

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 10:22 AM
5pinDIN
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Sorry, but no attachments appear.

Blank names occur when the same MIDI channel is assigned to multiple Parts, as in splits/layers - the first Part has the name that will be displayed, the remainder will be blank. That first Part could be named with a few identifying characters, but obviously that has limitations.

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 10:29 AM
EricMonroe
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I can’t seem to post any pics… and they are under 20000 kb… trying a screen shot here

But you get the idea…

For example in song mode: In row one I have a voice and row 2 I have a voice… each split on same midi channel. However I can’t see the name of the actual voice in row 2, I see a repeat of the voice in row 1.

(Or as mentioned, the row is blank based upon the midi channel set, usually numberical order)

Hoping for a way around this… a setting perhaps.... however the most errors I make live is playing the wrong voice… kinda running in the blind (despite 2 laptops on stage detailing each song)

thanks, Eric

Image Attachments
2018-08-14.png
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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 11:00 AM
5pinDIN
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EricMonroe - 14 August 2018 10:29 AM

pics

There are forum limitations on both size and file name for attachments. How big is what you’re trying to post, and what is the file extension (JPG/GIF/PNG, etc.)? A ZIP file will load as an attachment if not over 20,000KB, but my limited internet connection won’t allow me to download anything but relatively small pics.

EDIT: You edited your post after I posted the above. My reply was based on the original post.

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 11:05 AM
EricMonroe
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John Melas presents it better… not great… but helps me a LOT when organizing.

Image Attachments
2018-08-14 (1).png
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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 12:10 PM
5pinDIN
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EricMonroe - 14 August 2018 10:29 AM

[...]
For example in song mode: In row one I have a voice and row 2 I have a voice… each split on same midi channel. However I can’t see the name of the actual voice in row 2, I see a repeat of the voice in row 1.

That’s because you’ve set the same TxCh (MIDI transmit channel) for both tracks 1 and 2. That will allow you to press either [1] or [2] and play the same two Parts. However, as you found, the name shown will be that of the first Part for both Tracks, which certainly doesn’t help with identification. Why did you set the same TxCh for both tracks?

 

EricMonroe -

(Or as mentioned, the row is blank based upon the midi channel set, usually numberical order)

That happens when the MIDI Receive Channel is the same for the Parts. Having a name shown under that circumstance would just be confusing, since the blank indicates that pressing the associated numbered button will result in no sound from the XF.

 

EricMonroe -

Hoping for a way around this… a setting perhaps.... however the most errors I make live is playing the wrong voice… kinda running in the blind (despite 2 laptops on stage detailing each song)

Renaming the first Part in a split/layer to indicate that it is such a split/layer should help to resolve that. Unless you have a specific reason to set the TxCh of two tracks identically, you shouldn’t do that.

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 10:57 PM
edgar_thomas590
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thanks

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Posted on: August 14, 2018 @ 11:19 PM
EricMonroe
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I think I need to have a better understanding of the difference between the midi receive Channel and the midi transmit Channel. And how that applies to the song and mixing mode. So it looks like I need to dig into the manual a little bit.

One example is the screenshot of the John melas software above in this thread has a column which must be the midi receive Channel. I think I’m trying to emulate that column on the motif screen. I’m pretty confused right now.

So further investigation May shed some light for me!

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Posted on: August 15, 2018 @ 05:02 AM
5pinDIN
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I’ll try to help with the illumination…

Parts are MIDI receivers. By default, Parts 1 through 16 receive on the corresponding channel - Part 1 on channel 1, Part 2 on channel 2, etc.

Tracks are MIDI transmitters. By default, Track 1 transmits on channel 1, etc.

Under those default conditions, when you press one of the numbered buttons and play a key, the Track will transmit on the correspondingly numbered channel, resulting in the same-numbered Part receiving and therefore sounding.

If you change a Part’s Receive Channel from default, it will respond to MIDI being transmitted on the channel it’s then assigned to. When two (or more) Parts have the same Receive Channel, they will both be played by incoming MIDI data on that channel. Selecting a Track button where the display name is blank will result in no sound because the selected Track is transmitting on a channel which has no Part with a matching Receive Channel.

If you change the Transmit Channel (TxCh) assignment from default, pressing a numbered button will cause the keyboard to no longer transmit on the correspondingly numbered MIDI channel, but rather the one it’s been reassigned to. When two (or more) Tracks have the same Transmit Channel, they will both play any Parts having matching Receive Channel assignment. If you aren’t addressing external MIDI gear, Transmit Channel assignment is typically left at default settings.

I hope that helps. I realize that at first it may seem a lot to wrap your head around, but once you “get it”, it makes sense.

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Posted on: August 16, 2018 @ 08:48 AM
EricMonroe
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Thanks, this helps a lot… now for some Starbucks!

If I use the mix voice to rename them. .. and I need to Edit that voice. ... do i no longer edit the original voice? Is the editing on that voice now somewhere else?

Thank u, Eric

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Posted on: August 16, 2018 @ 10:54 AM
5pinDIN
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EricMonroe - 16 August 2018 08:48 AM

Thanks, this helps a lot… now for some Starbucks!

You’re welcome. I’ll take a pass on the coffee or other.  :-)

 

EricMonroe -

If I use the mix voice to rename them. .. and I need to Edit that voice. ... do i no longer edit the original voice? Is the editing on that voice now somewhere else?

Thank u, Eric

Renaming creates a Mix Voice (placed in the MIXV bank), and unless copied elsewhere that Mix Voice is only local to the particular Song (or Pattern). Any additional editing is accessed via the Mixing, [F6] Vce Edit. The Mix Voice could be copied to a USER Voice bank location (as explained in the support article I previously linked to), but unless you intend to use the edited Voice in another Song, etc., that’s unnecessary.

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Posted on: August 17, 2018 @ 01:39 AM
someclevername
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EricMonroe - 13 August 2018 11:39 AM

Soo… that brings me to an idea.... has anyone tried using Apples Mainstage to control the parts in SONG MODE… so then I could clearly notate and ID where my next voice is located etc. (and even have it step forward and backward thru voices in the song as needed)

Should be possible.  I have thought about this before myself.  You should just be able to set up the Motif as an external instrument.  If you’re careful with your channel assignments you should be able to get seamless transitions.  Only thing I don’t know is if Mainstage sends note-offs when it changes patches for external instruments. 

Some time ago, before I got Mainstage (& MacBook), I wrote a Windows program to control the Motif.  This let you set up patches and a list of cues, describing which patch to go to in the list.  Then you could advance patches with the Assignable Func pedal. 

I went to Mainstage because I figured how could just me compete with the SW development (and QA) dept in Apple.  So, I got Mainstage and used the built in sounds plus some VSTs.  Then I dumped it because I didn’t like the complexity of lugging a laptop around to gigs, there’s too many possible points of failure. 

In the end I went back to the Motif.  I heavily programmed my set using just performance mode, 1 performance per song.  You can seamlessly switch between a limited number of sounds live using Xpanded articulation, volume pedals and splits.

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Posted on: August 21, 2018 @ 08:08 AM
EricMonroe
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someclevername - 17 August 2018 01:39 AM
EricMonroe - 13 August 2018 11:39 AM

Soo… that brings me to an idea.... has anyone tried using Apples Mainstage to control the parts in SONG MODE… so then I could clearly notate and ID where my next voice is located etc. (and even have it step forward and backward thru voices in the song as needed)

Should be possible.  I have thought about this before myself.  You should just be able to set up the Motif as an external instrument.  If you’re careful with your channel assignments you should be able to get seamless transitions.  Only thing I don’t know is if Mainstage sends note-offs when it changes patches for external instruments. 

Some time ago, before I got Mainstage (& MacBook), I wrote a Windows program to control the Motif.  This let you set up patches and a list of cues, describing which patch to go to in the list.  Then you could advance patches with the Assignable Func pedal. 

I went to Mainstage because I figured how could just me compete with the SW development (and QA) dept in Apple.  So, I got Mainstage and used the built in sounds plus some VSTs.  Then I dumped it because I didn’t like the complexity of lugging a laptop around to gigs, there’s too many possible points of failure. 

In the end I went back to the Motif.  I heavily programmed my set using just performance mode, 1 performance per song.  You can seamlessly switch between a limited number of sounds live using Xpanded articulation, volume pedals and splits.

Thank you for sharing this info, its all very useful. I am going to go into Mainstage with careful trepidation. However the possibility of it simultaneously preparation all keyboards and soft synths for a song is intriguing.

My motis operanda is also to keep it simple as possible… so currently i keeping the entire show on one motif with a back up motif waiting backstage if needed.

The gameplan i chose was using song mode (mix mode) and i am working with 5pin now to figure out how to notate clearly what song/part i need to press next, so i need to notate using mix voices, so I have to hit the manual hard when I am not preparing for rehearsals etc.

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Posted on: August 21, 2018 @ 08:17 AM
EricMonroe
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5pinDIN - 16 August 2018 10:54 AM
EricMonroe - 16 August 2018 08:48 AM

Renaming creates a Mix Voice (placed in the MIXV bank), and unless copied elsewhere that Mix Voice is only local to the particular Song (or Pattern). Any additional editing is accessed via the Mixing, [F6] Vce Edit. The Mix Voice could be copied to a USER Voice bank location (as explained in the support article I previously linked to), but unless you intend to use the edited Voice in another Song, etc., that’s unnecessary.

Yes, thank you for this insight. It helps a lot. I just need to hit the manual hard when I am not in rehearsals, the MIXV Bank is shrouded in mystery to me because it’s not visible on the keyboard surface buttons, so its almost more virtual, I have to wrap my head around that! More to come hahaha

Eric

ps, the more I think about it, i would LOVE to rename the voices in mix mode (song mode) but, if after that I need to tweak a voice… well I do a lot in the easily visual John Melas software… and I haven’t had a chance to see if it supports editing mixv voices… so… the plot thickens, lol.

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