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Viewing topic "S70 XS strange s6 piano voice glitch"

     
Posted on: June 04, 2018 @ 04:40 AM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

Hi!

I am a new Yamaha s70 XS owner. I purchased a used instrument which has a problem with almost all the voices based on the S6 piano samples including the Natural Grand S6, Ballad Piano S6, Woody Piano S6 and so on.

If I play, for instance, the Natural Grand S6 voice using the sustain pedal and play lot of notes making heavy use of polyphony, the instrument starts produce (after 10 or more seconds) really loud, metallic and distorted faulty noise. It lasts few seconds and stops. The noise comes back over and over again if continue playing. I don’t need to play any extreme sequences, any normal “romantic” playing with use of sustain pedal is enough.

Interesting thing is the fact the noise comes only from right channel. Left is ok.

Any ideas what is really happening? If you have any suggestiona what might fix the problem is highly appreciated!

Thanks, Jussi

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 04, 2018 @ 08:33 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10169
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend

Welcome to the forum.

1) Does the problem only occur with Voices based on the S6 samples? (Try other Voices that can be similarly sustained.)

2) What happens if the assignable outputs are used?
Connect your monitor speakers to the L and R ASSIGNABLE OUTPUT jacks (instead of the main L/MONO and R). Select a Performance that has a Part using an S6 Voice. See the S90XS/S70XS Reference Manual (http://download.yamaha.com/file/9610). Performance Part Edit begins on page 81. Select the Performance Part that uses S6. Output Select is on page 83 of the Reference Manual - set it to asL+R for that Part. Play the S70XS. Is the problem still evident?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 10:14 AM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

Thanks for the reply!

1) Yes, only S6 voices produce the glitch. And strangely, Piano Rock S6 voice does not produce the glitch. I think it is the only S6 voice that does not have problems. Maybe Piano Rock S6 voice does not use all the S6 samples as it seems to play only high velocity samples, not the soft ones.

2) I tried the assignable outputs and yes, it does produce the glitch. Also phone output produce the glitch.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 10:47 AM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

I found out that the problem occurs only with certain notes. It is even possible that the problem is only with the D4 note. At least I managed to produce the glitch playing only the D4 key. And also, playing almost all other notes with the sustain pedal, I couldn’t produce the glitch.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 11:18 AM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

And using the S90/70 XS editor I think I managed to narrow the problem even more. I think it is the waveform “S6 Stretch pp St” that has the problem.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 12:22 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10169
Joined  09-16-2010
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Although not impossible, it’s a bit unusual that the problem you’re describing is limited to one sample and a particular key.

Since you’re a new owner of a used unit…
Have you done a factory reset? If not, just in case some strange setting was made by the previous owner, you might consider doing that. See page 145 of the Reference Manual. You might want to save an “All” file before doing that. See page 127.

If a reset doesn’t help, would you post a short (just a few seconds) MP3 recording of the problem? In order to attach the file, ZIP it first.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 12:47 PM
Davelet
Total Posts:  43
Joined  07-27-2017
status: Regular

People have discussed problems with the S6 piano sound before:

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/460506/

Is the above thread related to your problem in anyway? I think not, as you say the problem is with D4 and the thread above is about D2 (I can *just* make out the “problem” they talk about with my 46 year old ears and their 10 kHz bandwidth, but it doesn’t bother me). But I just wondered if it might somehow be related.

What happens if you turn off the damper resonance insertion effect, if you’re using it?

David.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 09:02 PM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

Thanks for the replies!

I made this video to demonstrate the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSe1R_DtkFQ

I hope it helps to understand the problem.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 09:09 PM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

Hard to say if it is related to my problem. At least it is quite different. My problem is really easy to hear and not related to harmonics really. It is more like a total disaster. :)

How can I turn off the damper insertion effect?

Thanks for your reply!

Davelet - 05 June 2018 12:47 PM

People have discussed problems with the S6 piano sound before:

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/460506/

Is the above thread related to your problem in anyway? I think not, as you say the problem is with D4 and the thread above is about D2 (I can *just* make out the “problem” they talk about with my 46 year old ears and their 10 kHz bandwidth, but it doesn’t bother me). But I just wondered if it might somehow be related.

What happens if you turn off the damper resonance insertion effect, if you’re using it?

David.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 05, 2018 @ 09:11 PM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 05 June 2018 12:22 PM

Since you’re a new owner of a used unit…
Have you done a factory reset? If not, just in case some strange setting was made by the previous owner, you might consider doing that. See page 145 of the Reference Manual. You might want to save an “All” file before doing that. See page 127.

Yes, first thing I did was the factory reset. After that I also updated the OS to the newest one. Neither helped with the problem.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 06, 2018 @ 06:02 AM
pdiddy
Total Posts:  38
Joined  11-07-2003
status: Regular

Watched your video. Strange problem indeed! Some observations:
The glitch does not trigger with the sample (attack).
The glitch seems to start during the sustain portion of the note.
The glitch has a frequency beat to it - you can hear it looping.
Hope this helps lead someone to the solution.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 06, 2018 @ 12:11 PM
Davelet
Total Posts:  43
Joined  07-27-2017
status: Regular
jussibus - 05 June 2018 09:02 PM

Thanks for the replies!

I made this video to demonstrate the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSe1R_DtkFQ

I hope it helps to understand the problem.

That is very weird.

It looks and sounds like a complicated fault to me, I’m afraid, and you’ll have to get the keyboard fixed.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 06, 2018 @ 10:53 PM
jussibus
Total Posts:  8
Joined  06-04-2018
status: Newcomer

I did further investigations and found out that the problem is indeed with the actual waveforms. No need to play multiple keys, no need to use sustain pedal. The glitch is apparent every time the faulty waveform is played with a certain note (usually D4 but with other waveforms it can be also G4 or B3). Glitch starts during the sustain portion of the note.

All the softest (=pp) S6 waveforms except the S6 Stretch pp L (L meaning the left channel) are faulty:
S6 Stretch pp St
S6 Stretch pp Mn
S6 Stretch pp R
S6 Stretch pp St Pan
S6 Stretch pp St +
S6 Stretch pp Mn +
S6 Stretch pp St -
S6 Stretch pp Mn

I noticed before the glitch is hearable only in right channel. So it is not surprise the only working waveform is the S6 Stretch pp L.

Also the flat ones are faulty, for instance S6 Flat pp St. I don’t know the difference between flat and stretch waveforms. Does anybody know the difference?

I managed to “fix” the problem switching the S6 Stretch pp St waveform with the S6 Stretch mp St. I also tried use low pass filter to make a bit softer to make it more like pp. I think it is possible to make it satisfactory.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: June 07, 2018 @ 04:12 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  10169
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
jussibus - 06 June 2018 10:53 PM

[...] I don’t know the difference between flat and stretch waveforms. Does anybody know the difference? [...]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning

The “flat” Waveforms are not stretched.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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