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Viewing topic "Granular Synthesis on the Motif!?  WOW!!!!!"

     
Posted on: May 06, 2018 @ 04:09 PM
lastmonk
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status: Pro

Although the Motif does not advertise itself as granular synthesis capable, I have found that the powerful integrated sampler, sampling editing and the sampling jobs, that provide slicing of Audio wavs down to millisecond amounts when mixed with the full subtractive synthesis capabilities of the motif makes for legitimate granular synthesis.  Granular Synthesis on the Motif that’s very competitive I might add.

The sampling jobs i.e, the slice job, the time-stretch job, the fade in/out job, the transpose job, the loop remix job, the various delete , move sampling jobs allow you to create grains(slices) that can be recombined and stacked and re-sampled and used in conjunction with the Motif’s envelopes, oscillators, and effects do a great deal of the same stuff done in the major granular synthesis modules out there.

Yes there are Granular Synthesis modules out there that have more features., but the Motif provides the bread and butter tools to get the job done.  At least in my opinion it does.

The more I dig into my Motif the more I find.  Its FN Awesome.

Has this been anyone else’s experience?  Any one else played with Granular Synthesis type operations on the Motif? Just curious.

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Posted on: May 07, 2018 @ 05:44 PM
lastmonk
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Also after reading and digesting this:

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/learning_about_the_sample_slice_and_sliceseq_sample_functions

especially the advanced section on “looping and remixing the slice”

And experimenting with slicing the “slice” bringing a sliced wav form back in a slicing again and then applying those to elements and envelopes OMG!

Although the process is klunky at points and there is a lot of trial and error, the end result is granular synthesis on my Motif XF8 or close enough as far as I’m concerned.  The slices are the same as grains from my perspective.  More technical minded folks might disagree., but the end results speak for themselves.

I’m really glad that I opted for the Motif over the Montage for all kinds of reasons now I can add one more.  I don’t think the Montage has the advanced sampling capability like the Motif.  I Heard it can import Sample voices, but thats about it.  So Although it has some nice FM capability added, I don’t think it can do anything like Motif’s Granular Synthesis LOL

Compare the Motif Integrated Sampler + Sampler Jobs + Subtractive Synthesis capability to the grain (granular synthesis soft synth) as shown in this nice intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb4EEWedQKM

or the GR-1 granular synthesizer Notice the 128 note limit per voice hmmm.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXI0Ra4hjn8

We can do this on the Motif XF8 now!  But we do wish these fellers well on their Kickstarter!!!

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Posted on: May 09, 2018 @ 07:19 AM
lastmonk
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Digging a little more I found some historical info for those Motif owners who might be interested in exploring Granular Synthesis type operations on the Motif.  Here is a pretty good historical discussion on Granular Synthesis from SOS

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/granular-synthesis

Some comments a little more current from the folks at proaudiofiles

https://theproaudiofiles.com/granular-synthesis/

Some relevant voices I believe Dave Polich was involved in designing for the Motif:

https://www.boldersounds.com/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=101

This was a lot to fully digest and absorb.  Although the Motif’s interface and workflow for getting original granular synthesis done is a “little” more tedious than some of the other offerings, basic granular synthesis on the Motif it is still fun once you get the hang of it.

I’m finding that virtually any synthesis problem I need to solve, with time, effort and patience, and my thinking cap, I can get it done on the Motif.  Thanx Yamaha for such an FN Awesome instrument.

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Posted on: May 09, 2018 @ 09:30 PM
dsetto
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Joined  01-24-2014
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Absolutely awesome, lastmonk. I was just poking around that sampling/slice section yesterday. I don’t get it yet. Super discovery how small the slices get. ... When I was assessing the Montage, I recall thinking there was some interesting things to do there- I just didn’t expect it to be that short.

I’ll try out your suggestions. Will need to digest it. ... No, the Montage does not have the sampler part.

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Posted on: May 10, 2018 @ 04:41 AM
lastmonk
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dsetto - 09 May 2018 09:30 PM

Absolutely awesome, lastmonk. I was just poking around that sampling/slice section yesterday. I don’t get it yet. Super discovery how small the slices get. ... When I was assessing the Montage, I recall thinking there was some interesting things to do there- I just didn’t expect it to be that short.

I’ll try out your suggestions. Will need to digest it. ... No, the Montage does not have the sampler part.

Yea, I’m finding that the only thing that limits us on the Motif is our imagination and patience.  It is really an unbelievable instrument.  The 8 oscillators, 3 (6 stage) envelopes, the LFO, all of the filters, all of the awesome special effects, advanced sampling jobs, the opportunities for sound design and synthesis are endless.  Not to mention the fully functional Sequencer

The Montage is nice.  Maybe as a second/support keyboard it would be kewl.  But its no Motif…

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Posted on: May 10, 2018 @ 10:23 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  392
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

I agree. Often, the argument I give myself is, I prefer having the sequencer and a less capable sound-design instrument. ... Even if I haven’t mastered the motif sequencer, and even if I prefer to spend my “capture-arranging” time & energy with a DAW. 

The other day I explored swapping elements by applying the common LFO to amplitude, using both triangle & square. Even though I see differences in both capabilities & approach to other forms of keyboard-based synthesis or sampling, the motif’s combination of elements is good.

The hurdle I’ve got to get past is getting comfortable at prepping waveforms, replacing waveforms on my flash, and managing those changes with my user Voices. I’m gonna take it slow. I’m just gonna put in waveforms on to my flash, and leave them there for a long time. That’s limiting, but I have to limit how much time I spend on learning.

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Posted on: May 10, 2018 @ 07:07 PM
lastmonk
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dsetto - 10 May 2018 10:23 AM

I agree. Often, the argument I give myself is, I prefer having the sequencer and a less capable sound-design instrument. ... Even if I haven’t mastered the motif sequencer, and even if I prefer to spend my “capture-arranging” time & energy with a DAW. 

The other day I explored swapping elements by applying the common LFO to amplitude, using both triangle & square. Even though I see differences in both capabilities & approach to other forms of keyboard-based synthesis or sampling, the motif’s combination of elements is good.

The hurdle I’ve got to get past is getting comfortable at prepping waveforms, replacing waveforms on my flash, and managing those changes with my user Voices. I’m gonna take it slow. I’m just gonna put in waveforms on to my flash, and leave them there for a long time. That’s limiting, but I have to limit how much time I spend on learning.

Also keep in mind, you don’t have to start completely from scratch, you can take a voice
that is close to what you want, look at how its made i.e

1. in edit mode look at what waveforms have been assigned to each of the 8 elements.
2.  look at the filter envelop settings, pitch and volume envelop settings
3. look at the insert effects on that voice.

Then decide what you want to change, take off , or add to that voice.

You can always reverse engineer voices that come with the Motif in this way.

You can always look under the cover of your favorite voices on the Motif see how they were made, and then modify them to make new voices.

Yes you can start from scratch with square or sine wavs, but you can also modify existing voices at the oscillator level or envelop level to get new voices too!

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Posted on: May 10, 2018 @ 08:54 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  392
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

That’s good advice. Would you believe the only stock Voices I’ve ever played on my XF have been one of the pianos, a few drums, a few guitars, and a bass?

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Posted on: May 11, 2018 @ 03:32 PM
lastmonk
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dsetto - 10 May 2018 08:54 PM

That’s good advice. Would you believe the only stock Voices I’ve ever played on my XF have been one of the pianos, a few drums, a few guitars, and a bass?

I recently added A Clavinova 535 to my studio.  While my Motif/Mox have the Yamaha CFX piano sample, the Clav has an even better CFX.  So I typically use the Clav for my Piano in my studio.  But I guess it depends on what kind of music your playing, or creating that dictates what voices you use.  I do all kinds, I will use flutes, bassoons, violins, violas, sax, etc.  I will use PADS and leads, and I’ve been working on my own Synth voice for about a year now.  So far its approaching everything I’ve always wanted in a Synth voice:

1. The ability to play rich 7th, 9th, 13th, diminished,augmented etc chords without sounding like an organ, piano, string section, or brass section.

2. The ability to play unique (haunting) solo leads that let me cut through the mix, using my bender, modulator, my own custom super knobs using AS1, AS2, and other controllers.

3.  A voice that supports all kinds of rhythms, speeds, percussive, or legato touch.

I’m still working on it though.  I’ve used it at a few gigs now, so far no boos, no one has walked out yet, and even a few compliments from other keyboard players.  Its a work in progress that I hope to be my ultimate synth voice. I’ve even named it:  “Modal Berry”.  So if you hear about some dude playing with a synth sound he’s named “Modal Berry” its probably me. (Yes I have featured it at a gig or two, so if the audience was paying attention.....) But “Modal Berry” still has a way to go yet, and only time and patience will tell whether I get to my ultimate goal with this voice.

My Motif/MOX continue to serve me well in this regard. I can’t imagine ever trading or selling them!

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