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Viewing topic "noise and hiss"

     
Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 01:08 AM
MXF
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Hello, I have MOXF8 and its gives a lot of noise and hiss sound in its L/R output, because of this I have problems recording in Cubase, the cables I am using are fine because when I use the same cable in my Roland FA6 I don’t get any hiss or noise. My cables are stereo kindly tell me how I can get rid of the noise and hiss in my Moxf? I’m using RME UCX sound interface.

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 04:35 AM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 05 December 2017 01:08 AM

[...] the cables I am using are fine because when I use the same cable in my Roland FA6 I don’t get any hiss or noise. My cables are stereo [...]

The Roland FA-06 has balanced outputs, and the correct cable for it is the type with 1/4” TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) plugs. However, the MOXF has unbalanced outputs, and the cables should be TS (Tip/Sleeve) type. If by “My cables are stereo” you mean that they are TRS, then you’re using the wrong type for the MOXF.

 

MXF -

kindly tell me how I can get rid of the noise and hiss in my Moxf? I’m using RME UCX sound interface.

First connect the MOXF with the correct type of audio cables. If that doesn’t correct the problem, then it’s likely caused by a ground loop, possibly related to USB connections.

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 09:53 AM
MXF
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I tried TS cables but the hiss and noise is still there! I looked at my audio interface specification and it states all inputs are balance (please see pic below).

I’ve invested a lot in my equipment and it’s not an amount that I can spend easily over and over again so I appreciate all your help and input I will be really grateful if you can help me sort this noise problem once and for all!

I record all my keyboards into Cubase. My Fa6 & Pa3X are already connected to UCX which is working fine.
Now how can I send MOXF audio into Cubase without any noise or hiss problems I am really stuck and I need to sort this Please help me!

ucx_rme.jpg

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 10:27 AM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 05 December 2017 09:53 AM

I tried TS cables but the hiss and noise is still there! I looked at my audio interface specification and it states all inputs are balance (please see pic below).

If the UCX has properly designed input stages, it will accept unbalanced output from the MOXF using TS instrument cables.

 

MXF -

I’ve invested a lot in my equipment and it’s not an amount that I can spend easily over and over again so I appreciate all your help and input I will be really grateful if you can help me sort this noise problem once and for all!

I record all my keyboards into Cubase. My Fa6 & Pa3X are already connected to UCX which is working fine.
Now how can I send MOXF audio into Cubase without any noise or hiss problems I am really stuck and I need to sort this Please help me!

Is the MOXF connected to a computer via a USB cable? If so, temporarily disconnect that cable at the MOXF, and see if the noise is reduced. Let us know.

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 10:33 AM
philwoodmusic
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If 5pinDIN’s suggestion of disconnecting the USB doesn’t improve matters....

Most reports of a noisy output on a MOXF or indeed any other keyboard (which isn’t faulty) are down to not getting enough level out of them because of poor gain staging and then compensating for that by cranking up the main volume or input gain on whatever is being used to record it.

All keyboards will emit some hiss and how much you hear is dependant on how badly you record them and how little attention you’ve paid to basic audio theory.

In this case, signal to noise ratio could be key.

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 11:38 AM
MXF
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Is the MOXF connected to a computer via a USB cable? If so, temporarily disconnect that cable at the MOXF, and see if the noise is reduced. Let us know.[/quote]

5pinDIN
I connected MOXF with TS cable.
When USB cable is connected the noise/hiss level is so high and when I disconnect the USB cable the level of hiss/noise is reduced. That’s good but if the USB isn’t connected then I can’t work in Cubase because midi signals is really important for me when I record in Cubase……. Please guide me on what to do next! Thanks.

I’ve just recorded a 20 sec audio clip to show you the noise level. There are 3 parts during this clip…… kindly listen carefully
First part the begin is without connecting USB cable,
Then secondly I put in USB cable and took it out within a few seconds.
Lastly in the end all I was doing was touching the audio cables and it was giving some noise
https://app.box.com/s/kzuhyj8emblvfn1w3cg67vck18lypa40

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Posted on: December 05, 2017 @ 03:57 PM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 05 December 2017 11:38 AM

[...] I’ve just recorded a 20 sec audio clip to show you the noise level. There are 3 parts during this clip…… kindly listen carefully
First part the begin is without connecting USB cable,
Then secondly I put in USB cable and took it out within a few seconds.
Lastly in the end all I was doing was touching the audio cables and it was giving some noise
https://app.box.com/s/kzuhyj8emblvfn1w3cg67vck18lypa40

Sorry, but I have somewhat limited internet access, and therefore can’t hear your sound clip. Could you zip it and attach it to a post here?

Before we get into the USB connection…
Touching audio cables shouldn’t normally introduce any significant “noise” (hum?). Are the TS cables shielded instrument type, (not speaker cables, which are unshielded)? How long are the cables?

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 01:50 AM
MXF
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Ok nicely audio cables matter solve I tray another good quality cables and it’s Don.

Now please help, when USB cable is connected the noise/hiss level is high and when I disconnect the USB cable the level of hiss/noise is end/reduced. That’s good but if the USB isn’t connected then I can’t work in Cubase because midi signals is really important for me when I record in Cubase……. Please guide me on what to do!

File Attachments
Hiss Noise level.zip  (File Size: 428KB - Downloads: 5)
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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 03:49 AM
MXF
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Please reply to my post because I have some projects in Cubase due which are pending thank you.
The USB to MIDI is very important for me as Cubase is dependent on this……..What do you think is the MOXF USB is faulty I bought this brand new direct from Yamaha store?
Will need to record MOXF with midi cables like back in the olden days?

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 04:46 AM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 06 December 2017 01:50 AM

[...] when USB cable is connected the noise/hiss level is high and when I disconnect the USB cable the level of hiss/noise is end/reduced. [...]

Thanks for posting the MP3. The first thing I heard was digital noise from the computer. For now we can ignore the hum you get by touching the audio cables.

The computer noise can be coupled due to ground potential differences between the computer and the MOXF. That sort of problem isn’t always easy to resolve. If your computer requires a grounded power cord (3 prongs), make sure that it’s connected to an outlet that has a good ground.

Here are a few things related to the USB connection…
1) Easiest: Try another USB cable - some wire the shield and power ground differently.
2) Google “usb ground isolation” (without the quotation marks). There are several devices available. I don’t know which are better/worse or might resolve your problem.
3) Inexpensive: Modify a USB cable, as described here by zpink
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/478574/
...and by “Solarfire” in this thread:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/usb-ground-loop-isolator-full-speed-or-high-speed.101309/

There are no guarantees. I hope one of the above helps.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 05:31 AM
MXF
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Thank you 5pinDIN,
I have upgraded my USB midi drivers YSUSB_V1910-2 and seen that there is an improvement bit, then I switch off my MOXF and PC is on I still heard noise then when I removed the USB cable from MOXF (even though MOXF was off) the noise was completely gone, so I think this means that PC isn’t producing the noise it’s the USB cable that’s causing this problem! I have tried 3 different cables and still got the same problem.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 06:12 AM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 06 December 2017 05:31 AM

[...]I switch off my MOXF and PC is on I still heard noise then when I removed the USB cable from MOXF (even though MOXF was off) the noise was completely gone, so I think this means that PC isn’t producing the noise it’s the USB cable that’s causing this problem! I have tried 3 different cables and still got the same problem.

No - the cable doesn’t cause the problem, the cable just conducts it. I’m not inclined to get into a detailed technical explanation. Google “ground loops” if interested.

I’ve given you some approaches to resolving the problem. You’ve tried the first one related to USB, which was easiest but least likely to help. If you feel able to do it properly, you might try the last one - it’s inexpensive and often works. Otherwise, you could research USB isolation devices.

There might be other resolutions, but I don’t see a point in discussing them before you fully investigate what I’ve already mentioned.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 07:26 AM
MapleCarbine
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MXF - 06 December 2017 03:49 AM

Please reply to my post because I have some projects in Cubase due which are pending thank you.
The USB to MIDI is very important for me as Cubase is dependent on this……..What do you think is the MOXF USB is faulty I bought this brand new direct from Yamaha store?
Will need to record MOXF with midi cables like back in the olden days?

Dude, your level of entitlement is scary. 

You’ve been given a lot of help on this subject and not just on this thread but several times on others. 

A quick forum search shows that you’ve been enduring this problem or something close to it since February, so there’s no way at all that any of your Cubase projects are pending or even vaguely important.

You’ve got grounding issues and they’re tricky to deal with.  You need to do some research on it now.

Also, MIDI cables are not olden days technology.  This observation alone shows us exactly where you’re at with technology.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 11:38 AM
MXF
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Hi 5pinDIN, I will research into USB isolation devices and grounding issues, but however for the time being I will connect via midi cables but could you kindly tell me what internal MOXF and Cubase midi settings I need to have is there any web pages/links that will show me step by step? Will the same USB midi drivers that I have installed work with midi cables as I am not using USB to midi or will I need to install new drivers? If so which ones please send link if possible.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 01:29 PM
5pinDIN
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MXF - 06 December 2017 11:38 AM

Hi 5pinDIN, I will research into USB isolation devices and grounding issues, but however for the time being I will connect via midi cables but could you kindly tell me what internal MOXF and Cubase midi settings I need to have is there any web pages/links that will show me step by step? Will the same USB midi drivers that I have installed work with midi cables as I am not using USB to midi or will I need to install new drivers? If so which ones please send link if possible.

As far as the MOXF is concerned, the only thing you would need to do is change the Utility mode MIDI In/Out setting from USB to MIDI. The rest depends on what type of computer MIDI interface you use, and setting Cubase to see its ports. I’m not using Cubase now, so that setup isn’t something I’m sufficiently familiar with.

Perhaps more importantly, there’s no guarantee that such a connection won’t result in similar noise issues. While MIDI itself is optically isolated, MIDI cables have shields that are continuous from one end to the other. A MIDI input built to spec breaks the shield connection at pin 2 of the DIN connector - but I’ve seen some where that pin is connected to ground, sometimes resulting in a ground loop. So depending on whether or not the MIDI interface you use is built correctly, there could still be a problem.

You can try using 5-pin MIDI, and things might work well that way. I still think that modifying a USB cable is worth the effort, since if that works there’s no need to learn anything new. If you can’t modify the cable yourself, someone with some electrical experience and the necessary information should be able to easily do what’s needed.

Good luck - I have nothing more to add to this topic.

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Posted on: December 06, 2017 @ 01:59 PM
MXF
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thank you for all the information you have given its been very useful to me. I will call someone in my studio with electrical experience who can help me.

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