mySoftware [Updates]

Once you create a user profile on Motifator and update with the appropriate information, the updates shown here will be specific to you.

rssFeeds [Syndicate]


forumforum
 

Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.

Viewing topic "Undocumented sysex: Select quick setup"

   
Page 1 of 2
Posted on: October 19, 2017 @ 01:00 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Hi,

In my search for undocumented MOXF sysex messages, I found a set about “Quick Setup”. In this forum there’s a thread about it from 2014 that came very close to the solution: http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/472675/

Parameter change:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 70 02 00 0n F7 Select quick setup n = 0~5

Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 70 02 00 F7 Selected quick setup
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 70 02 00 0n F7 Quick setup n = 0~5

If and when I find more, I will post them in this thread

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 20, 2017 @ 12:36 AM
Vetalexy
Total Posts:  27
Joined  07-20-2015
status: Regular

Thank you! This is very useful information!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 20, 2017 @ 04:07 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Some more undocumented sysex’s and expanded on one already found before http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/475646/.

Parameter change:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 03 00 0n F7 Select part n (0~F)

Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 64 03 00 F7 Request selected part
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 03 00 0n F7 Select part n (0~F)



Parameter change:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 00 00 01 0n F7 Mute part n (0~F)
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 00 00 00 0n F7 Unmute part n (0~F)

Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 64 00 00 F7 Request (un)muted parts
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 00 F7 part 1 - m=0 unmute
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 01 F7 part 2 - m=1 mute
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 02 F7 part 3
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 03 F7 part 4
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 04 F7 part 5
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 05 F7 part 6
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 06 F7 part 7
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 07 F7 part 8
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 08 F7 part 9
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 09 F7 part 10
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0A F7 part 11
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0B F7 part 12
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0C F7 part 13
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0D F7 part 14
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0E F7 part 15
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 64 00 00 0m 0F F7 part 16



Parameter change:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 01 00 01 0n F7 solo on part n (0~F)
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 64 01 00 00 0n F7 solo off part n (0~F)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 23, 2017 @ 12:11 AM
Vetalexy
Total Posts:  27
Joined  07-20-2015
status: Regular

The behavior of Yamaha is very strange! Not only do they not correct their mistakes (not synchronous transfer of midi data to the sequencer on the computer). So they still hide the information about the sysex commands!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 23, 2017 @ 02:21 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

I think they don’t want to share this information because it’s meant for communication between the software editor and the MOXF. Maybe they just never imagined it could be useful for other purposes.

I also own a Roli Seaboard Rise, and Roli doesn’t give any information about sysex. So it’s not just Yamaha that holds back information.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 25, 2017 @ 01:18 AM
Vetalexy
Total Posts:  27
Joined  07-20-2015
status: Regular

There is very need the editor for the sequencer. For direct editing of patterns and songs. I wanted to try to do some editor myself, but I do not have enough information about sysex. And I do not know at all - is this possible in principle.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 26, 2017 @ 04:08 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

There is very need the editor for the sequencer. For direct editing of patterns and songs. I wanted to try to do some editor myself, but I do not have enough information about sysex. And I do not know at all - is this possible in principle.

I never worked with the sequencer, but it doesn’t seem to send midi sysex info out while changing parameters, so it’s very unlikely that it’s possible.


Meanwhile I found some more sysex commands that work in Voice mode.
Use the parameter requests to get the selected Voice-Bank and Program numbers.

Parameter change:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 65 00 00 nn F7 Bank Select MSB (00, 7F, 3F)
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 65 00 01 nn F7 Bank Select LSB (see data list)
F0 43 10 7F 1C 00 65 00 02 nn F7 Program Change nn=00~7F


Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 65 00 00 F7 Bank Select MSB
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 65 00 00 nn F7 Bank Select MSB (00, 7F, 3F)


Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 65 00 01 F7 Bank Select LSB
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 65 00 01 nn F7 Bank Select LSB (see data list)


Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 65 00 02 F7 Program Change
Response from MOXF:
F0 43 10 7F 1C 01 65 00 02 nn F7 Program Change nn=00~7F


I’m searching by sending parameter requests and bulk dump requests for all addresses that aren’t in the data list. Only when some address generates a response from the MOXF, I can try to figure out what it means. Given that there are over 2,000,000 addresses to check in 5 modes with 2 types of requests, it will take a very long time to finish this.

The next address ranges are already scanned:
64 00 00 ~ 64 7F 7F in Voice mode
65 00 00 ~ 65 7F 7F in Voice mode
70 00 00 ~ 70 7F 7F in Song mode
71 00 00 ~ 71 7F 7F in Song mode

I found a lot of undocumented sysex messages that I have no idea (yet) what they do or mean. If someone else wants to take a shot at them, let me know and I’ll publish them here.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2017 @ 12:51 AM
Vetalexy
Total Posts:  27
Joined  07-20-2015
status: Regular

Thanks for the answer. Address scanning is a very big job with an unknown outcome. I also tried to scan addresses, but I got answers who can not be deciphered. This is blindlyng work. Yamaha it would be possible to ignore clients less!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 28, 2017 @ 05:24 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Hello again.

Just found a sysex that sends back the display contents in 17 sysex messages.

Parameter request:
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 51 00 00 F7

Response from MOXF:
F0 43 00 7F 1C 00 0B 00 51 00 00 00 0F 01 70 00 40 00 2F F7

F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 00 78 78 78 78 78 78 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 01 00 00 00 00 78 78 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 02 78 78 78 78 78 78 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 03 78 78 78 78 78 78 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 04 78 78 00 78 78 00 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 06 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 07 78 78 78 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 09 00 00 00 00 00 78 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 0B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 0C 00 78 78 00 78 00 78 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 0D 78 78 78 78 78 00 00 …
F0 43 00 7F 1C 08 06 00 51 00 01 00 0E 00 78 00 78 78 00 78 …

Sysex 17:
F0 43 00 7F 1C 00 14 00 51 00 21 15 00 16 01 1A 01 22 01 26 01 28 01 30 00 31 00 7E F7
--- or ---
F0 43 00 7F 1C 00 0C 00 51 00 21 1A 00 30 01 3A 00 3E 01 74 F7
--- or ---
F0 43 00 7F 1C 00 04 00 51 00 21 00 F7

Sysex 1: (00 0F) might be the nr of sysex’s that follow, the next 4 bytes give the dimensions (01 70 = 240 pixels width) - (00 040 = 64 pixels height)

Sysex’s 2 to 16 are 1039 bytes in length and hold the image in a kind of pixel format, 1024 pixels per sysex. Every value is 1 pixel (00 or 78).
Either one is white and the other is black. If you put this in a 240 x 64 grid you get the complete display image.

Sysex 17 seems to have something to do with “last changed leds”.

Must not be too hard for a Windows programmer to build a little program that sends the sysex, catches the response and converts it into a bitmap.

I will have a go at it for Linux when i am finished searching for undocumented sysex’s. ;-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 28, 2017 @ 08:40 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  9501
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
wonderer - 26 October 2017 04:08 PM

Meanwhile I found some more sysex commands that work in Voice mode.
[...]

Thanks for making the effort and posting your results. I don’t have a MOXF, but I’ve determined that by changing the model ID from 1C 00 to 12 the following Parameter Request messages that you posted work with the Motif XF:
Quick Setup
Selected Part
Bank MSB
Bank LSB
Program Number

I haven’t tried them on my Motif XS, but it’s likely they would work if the model ID was changed to 03.
 

wonderer -

The next address ranges are already scanned:
64 00 00 ~ 64 7F 7F in Voice mode
65 00 00 ~ 65 7F 7F in Voice mode
70 00 00 ~ 70 7F 7F in Song mode
71 00 00 ~ 71 7F 7F in Song mode

I found a lot of undocumented sysex messages that I have no idea (yet) what they do or mean. If someone else wants to take a shot at them, let me know and I’ll publish them here.

If you post the positive results of the ranges you already tried, I could see if they work with the XF (by changing the model ID), and then try to determine what they are. I’d suggest that if you do make that available, it might be best to place it in a text file, ZIP that, and attach the ZIP to a post.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 29, 2017 @ 02:00 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Thanks for making the effort and posting your results…

Your welcome, I hope the results enable people to do some things they weren’t able to do before.

I’ve determined that by changing the model ID from 1C 00 to 12 the following Parameter Request messages that you posted work with the Motif XF:
Quick Setup
Selected Part
Bank MSB
Bank LSB
Program Number

Thanks for verifying these sysex’s also work on the Motif XF, that makes them usable for a lot more people.

Soon I will post the positive results in a .ZIP file, I first have to recheck them as my home-brew software had a problem with large sysex’s that only surfaced when I got to the screendumps. Just to make sure there aren’t any hiccups.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 29, 2017 @ 03:20 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  9501
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
wonderer - 29 October 2017 02:00 PM

[...] Thanks for verifying these sysex’s also work on the Motif XF, that makes them usable for a lot more people.

You’re welcome - I’m glad to help. I checked further, and indeed they also work with the XS by changing the model ID.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 31, 2017 @ 07:09 PM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Hi again,

Added to this post is a ZIP file with a plain text document that I hope will show as intended. It should be viewed with a fixed font.

This text is about undocumented parameter requests and the responses from the MOXF in voice mode only.
The request-ranges that didn’t generate a response are also in the text, just to be complete.
Comments are added where I thought they might be of use, but some of those comments are just my ideas or guesses.

I would really appreciate any comments and ideas from anyone interested in this matter. What really would help is to share “undocumented sysex” responses from a MO, MOX, MOXF or Motif that has been filled with user Songs, Voices, ARPs etc. That way some things might surface that otherwise remain hidden.

The next ZIP is about undocumented dump requests in voice mode but it will take a while to put together.



Found more info about the 51 00 00 and 51 00 02 adresses.
Replaced the ZIP with a new version.

Found more info about the 01 00 nn addresses.
Replaced the ZIP with again a newer version.

File Attachments
Moxf - Undocumented voice parameter requests.zip  (File Size: 6KB - Downloads: 6)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 01, 2017 @ 08:09 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  9501
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru

Thanks for posting the ZIP file.

I checked several of the Parameter Request messages, using the correct model ID for the Motif XF. Most did not result in a response from the XF. That’s not surprising - there are certainly differences between the MOXF and Motif XF.

I’ve only been able to verify the following Parameter Requests work with the XF…
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 70 00 0B F7 Tempo
F0 43 30 7F 1C 00 70 05 00 F7 AF1+2 on/off
...when 1C 00 is replaced with 12.

YC-3B is an organ emulation (Hammond B3?) VST, provided by Yamaha. It’s not integral to the MOXF - I presume it was in use when the SysEx testing was done. I’m not sure what to make of the CC# assignments, since the XF doesn’t respond to those messages (using its model ID).

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 02, 2017 @ 05:31 AM
wonderer
Avatar
Total Posts:  21
Joined  10-11-2017
status: Regular

Thanks for posting the ZIP file.

You’re welcome, and thank you for checking out these requests on the Motif XF/XS. The next zip with dump requests is almost done, I expect to post it later today.

Maybe you already noticed that i updated the ZIP file yesterday. I added some new info in the 51 00 00 section. That section is only for reading the display and leds, sending parameter changes to it doesn’t do anything. I would be very interested in the responses it generates on a Motif (if any).


YC-3B is an organ emulation (Hammond B3?) VST, provided by Yamaha. It’s not integral to the MOXF - I presume it was in use when the SysEx testing was done. I’m not sure what to make of the CC# assignments, since the XF doesn’t respond to those messages (using its model ID).


When I search for undocumented sysex’s I use Linux to avoid any “contamination” from other software. As you know, Linux doesn’t run any Yamaha software.
On my PC and Mac I never installed the YC-3B emulator, so these requests/responses seem to be integrated into the MOXF. I don’t yet know what they mean or do, but in time I will try to figure that out also ;-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 02, 2017 @ 06:54 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  9501
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
wonderer - 02 November 2017 05:31 AM

Maybe you already noticed that i updated the ZIP file yesterday. I added some new info in the 51 00 00 section. That section is only for reading the display and leds, sending parameter changes to it doesn’t do anything. I would be very interested in the responses it generates on a Motif (if any).

No response by the Motif XF to those Parameter Requests.

By the way, in your previous post you said “Found more info about the 50 00 00 and 50 00 02 adresses.” It appears you meant 51 00 00 and 51 00 02 - if so, you might want to edit that post.

 

wonderer -

When I search for undocumented sysex’s I use Linux to avoid any “contamination” from other software. As you know, Linux doesn’t run any Yamaha software.
On my PC and Mac I never installed the YC-3B emulator, so these requests/responses seem to be integrated into the MOXF. I don’t yet know what they mean or do, but in time I will try to figure that out also ;-)

Based on that, I did a bit more research. I took a look at an 8L26OS_.PGM (MOXF firmware) file, using a hex editor, and found a section headed with “YC-3B”. It has CC# and other assignments, and is apparently a template for that VST. It’s followed by others for FM8 and Massive (Native Instruments VSTs), Trilian (Spectrasonics), Nexus 2 (reFX), etc.

Perhaps the YC-3B response to the Parameter Request is due to it being the default loaded VST template. I suppose you could try selecting a different VST template and see if the response changes.

Further searching the firmware with a hex editor might provide other clues, if you’re so-inclined.

  [ Ignore ]  


Page 1 of 2