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Viewing topic "Emulate Breath or Aftertouch with Mod Wheel or FC7?"

     
Posted on: May 29, 2017 @ 10:17 PM
AlwaysSunny
Total Posts:  21
Joined  12-14-2016
status: Regular

Hey there folks!

Wondering if this is possible. 

I don’t have an FC7, but I’ve learned that I can bind the mod wheel to control the effects associated with an FC7.  (Is that correct?  So far it seems that way.)

However, I can’t seem to bind the wheel (or FC7) to the articulations associated with Breath and Aftertouch.  I’m not entirely sure I’ve even seen voices which would respond to those inputs.

I recall reading that the MOXF samples / tone generator are capable of utilizing those signals if sent correctly.  Can these signals be associated with the mod wheel?  Or an FC7?

Roughly how many of the stock voices actually have articulations that would respond to those controls?  Would they be immediately obvious when browsing a voice’s 3-page 6-item control routing menu?

To ask my original question in a different way - is there ANY way for me to experience the nuance associated with breath / aftertouch? 

Would using the VST help?  My computer is right next to the thing, so I wouldn’t mind.

Looking forward to learning something.
Thanks a million,

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 05:13 AM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  9423
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
AlwaysSunny - 29 May 2017 10:17 PM

Hey there folks!

Wondering if this is possible. 

I don’t have an FC7, but I’ve learned that I can bind the mod wheel to control the effects associated with an FC7.  (Is that correct?  So far it seems that way.)

What can be controlled is determined by Controller Set settings for Source and Destination. To what degree the Destination is controlled is determined by the Depth setting. See the MOXF Reference Manual, [F4] CTL SET on page 32, and Setting examples of the Destination on page 53.

This support article…
http://www.motifator.com/storage/support/XS_Assigning_Controllers.pdf
...is written for the Motif XS, but much of the basics are applicable to the MOXF.

 

AlwaysSunny -

However, I can’t seem to bind the wheel (or FC7) to the articulations associated with Breath and Aftertouch. I’m not entirely sure I’ve even seen voices which would respond to those inputs.

I recall reading that the MOXF samples / tone generator are capable of utilizing those signals if sent correctly.  Can these signals be associated with the mod wheel?  Or an FC7?

In most cases changing the Controller Source, as from AT to MW, will accomplish what you’re asking about.

A list of MIDI CC numbers can be useful…
http://nickfever.com/music/midi-cc-list
Note that Breath Controller is CC#2.
While the MOXF allows for a Source setting of BC, I’m not aware of any Programs using it, likely because the Motifs don’t have a Breath Controller input. If programmed for it, the MOXF will respond to BC/CC#2 messages sent via MIDI.

 

AlwaysSunny -

Roughly how many of the stock voices actually have articulations that would respond to those controls?

As to AT, this thread should be interesting…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/472602/
... and please see my XF Factory Voices with AT.zip file linked there.

 

AlwaysSunny -

Would they be immediately obvious when browsing a voice’s 3-page 6-item control routing menu?

The Controller Set Source/Destination settings should reveal that.

 

AlwaysSunny -

To ask my original question in a different way - is there ANY way for me to experience the nuance associated with breath / aftertouch?

Changing Controller Source settings certainly allows alternative controllers to be substituted, but in my opinion the experience is quite different.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 08:45 AM
AlwaysSunny
Total Posts:  21
Joined  12-14-2016
status: Regular

Thanks for the exceptional reply!  (As always.  You guys are on the ball!)

Good to know that those inputs are bound in the same way as any others.  When I didn’t encounter voices with those controls assigned, I felt sure I was missing something.

This indirectly confirms my suspicion that I wasn’t missing much by lacking these controls.  Not if I already have mod-wheel or foot access to the very same actions they’d drive.

Much obliged,

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 09:14 AM
nbadesign
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Total Posts:  991
Joined  08-19-2007
status: Guru

FMO, breath controller like Yamaha’s BC3a is much responsive than MW and even FC7.
But, since newer synths like MOXF don’t have BC input, than you should use something like
MIDI Solutions Breath Controller .
I have this combination and it works nice! Ihave even tried it with Motif RackXS and
MU2000EX with PLG-150VL board.

Alex

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 04:15 PM
AlwaysSunny
Total Posts:  21
Joined  12-14-2016
status: Regular

Cowabunga, that’s a pricey little box!  Maybe some day…

To what functions do you typically map your BC input?  Wanting more nuance got me interested, but learning BC / FC7 governs the same parameters the mod-wheel can govern, I lost some interest. 

The desire came from wanting sax growl, but in the voices I’ve tested, toggling growl elements on / off with a button sounds pretty awful.  With some voice element edits, could I crossfade between growl / no growl smoothly?

At the risk of getting off-topic, what other cool stuff are these toys good for?  I’ve been underwhelmed by most of the mod-wheel-bound functions.  What kind of stuff should I try binding for different kinds of voices?  To the mod-wheel for now, but it might recapture my interest for a new device.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 05:23 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  9423
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
AlwaysSunny - 30 May 2017 08:45 AM

Thanks for the exceptional reply!  (As always.  You guys are on the ball!)

Good to know that those inputs are bound in the same way as any others.  When I didn’t encounter voices with those controls assigned, I felt sure I was missing something.

This indirectly confirms my suspicion that I wasn’t missing much by lacking these controls.  Not if I already have mod-wheel or foot access to the very same actions they’d drive.

Much obliged,

You’re welcome.

AT and BC have the advantage of not requiring that you remove your hands from the keys. For some users, BC is a “natural” controller while playing wood/brass wind instrument sounds. It’s not easy to describe how the interaction differs from using the MW or a foot controller, you have to experience it for yourself. You might, or might not, change your mind.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 30, 2017 @ 05:34 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  2988
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
AlwaysSunny - 30 May 2017 04:15 PM

Cowabunga, that’s a pricey little box!  Maybe some day…

As an alternative, you might look into This Product.

It is currently on sale for $163 Here, with free shipping (from outside US).

I am not recommending the product, as I have no personal experience with it, just something to consider.

Try searching for reviews or demos online.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 31, 2017 @ 02:27 AM
blafot
Total Posts:  91
Joined  05-04-2015
status: Experienced

Hi.
If you have a BC1 or BC3 (or compatible) or can get your hands on one, i have one from my old DX7, then you can build this one as I did. It works in the Expression pedal jack.

http://blafotproduktion.se/breath-controller-adapter/
Chose english language down at the right side.(google translate).

I use mine a lot on both MOXF and Roland. Have been using it on stage.

Mine works but do not blame me if yours do not work or break your borad.

Regards
/Magnus

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 31, 2017 @ 05:09 AM
nbadesign
Avatar
Total Posts:  991
Joined  08-19-2007
status: Guru

AlwaysSunny - 30 May 2017 04:15 PM

Cowabunga, that’s a pricey little box!  Maybe some day…

To what functions do you typically map your BC input?  Wanting more nuance got me interested, but learning BC / FC7 governs the same parameters the mod-wheel can govern, I lost some interest. 

The desire came from wanting sax growl, but in the voices I’ve tested, toggling growl elements on / off with a button sounds pretty awful.  With some voice element edits, could I crossfade between growl / no growl smoothly?

At the risk of getting off-topic, what other cool stuff are these toys good for?  I’ve been underwhelmed by most of the mod-wheel-bound functions.  What kind of stuff should I try binding for different kinds of voices?  To the mod-wheel for now, but it might recapture my interest for a new device.

I have bought BC3 controller when I had Motif ES, since it has breath controller input. At that time I found that BC isn’t intended only for PLG150-VL board that I also have and I’m still amazed with its capabilities. You should also check K Sounds Artikulation voice library, at that time made for ES. Although it uses only internal ES sounds without additional samples, main feature is using BC or FC7. One example that I like a lot is piano layered with choir and strings. You could play piano solo and dynamically add choir or strings by blowing to BC or press FC7 smoothly. Check audio examples at the link.
Other example is made by real professional brass player and sound designer, Matt Traum.
At Patchman Music website you could hear very impressive examples of using BC with newer Yamaha synths like Rack XS and MOtif XF / MOXF. These are also internal sounds specifically programmed for BC response even triggering XA (Extended Articulation).

Alex

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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