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Viewing topic "MPC5000 (slave) MIDI beat clock synced to Motif XF7 (master), sync is off when ‘count in’ is on."

     
Posted on: March 30, 2017 @ 03:39 PM
roman
Total Posts:  24
Joined  01-03-2006
status: Regular

Greetings from New Zealand.
I have always planned on sequencing with a method where I can switch drum patterns live (next seq) and record all normal pitched instruments linearly (start to finish).
The MPC has the drum patterns and they can be switched by hitting the pads in ‘next seq’ mode. The XF has the normal pitched instruments recorded linearly just like a multitrack in song mode.

I am accomplishing this by having an MPC5000 slaved via MIDI beat clock to the Motif XF7.
I have got the two machines syncing perfectly. But not every time. They lock tightly only if I start from the beginning of a measure, which means I have to press ‘rewind’ or ‘forward’ buttons in the transport before starting play or record.
Not a problem. It doesn’t always sync, lock together. If I had to make up a success rate, maybe 50%. IOW, every second try. Again no big problem. Just a couple of key taps and we’re rolling.

If I have a one measure count in before recording starts, which is the default and normal method. I get a consistent lag where the MPC will be after the XF in terms of timing. I call it the horse galloping sound.

I recorded a sharp 808 hi hat 8th note pattern into the XF and the same into the MPC. The XF triggering it’s internal sound engine and the MPC triggering it’s internal sound engine. When the sync locks, they sound like one hi hat. Excellent.

If I turn off the one bar measure count in on the XF, it can lock perfectly albeit about every second attempt.
If the record count in is on, it consistently has the MPC lagging after the XF in timing.

When it locks, it is tight. I can change the tempo on the XF and the MPC follows exactly.
And yes the MPC does allow me to switch sequences/patterns while synced, yay!

There are some other idiosyncrasies I will share when I can remember them by going through the process again. I recall one being that the MPC won’t let me start it recording by holding down the record button and then starting the XF. There is probably a workaround there.

My other post in the last couple of months was regarding the fault I found with the XF quantisation.
If I have a pattern looping and the drums or whatever are being quantised, when the pattern loops back to the start, the very first quarter bar duration {roughly} of the pattern isn’t quantised. Then everything after is.
It’s as if the brain of the XF isn’t fast enough to do the live processing of the non destructive quantisation of the MIDI notes at the first little bit of the pattern.

If I ‘normalise play effect’ in ‘edit’ then the issue goes away because the quantisation is now destructive and written into the notes.

Anyone else found this?

I will have to find that other post because I suspect the email notification from this forum may not be working for me.
Thanks y’all,
Roman.

PS, I wonder if Yamaha is listening and cares about these music inhibiting faults?

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Posted on: April 01, 2017 @ 09:08 AM
meatballfulton
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Total Posts:  2981
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

MIDI clock synchronization is not always perfect and it could be the MPC that has the problem.

At the very first beat of a sequence, a lot of data may be transmitted (program changes, CCs, etc.) and the MPC may be unable to keep up. The “galloping” effect is just a reaction to the MIDI Song Position Pointer (SPP) and making an adjustment. This is commonly heard when fast forwarding or rewinding mid-sequence while a sequence is playing.

Try this instead: Make bar 1 blank. Totally blank. The music actually starts on bar 2. See if that works OK.

Does the MPC support MIDI Time Code (MTC)?  Using MTC provides a time lock, not a beat lock. If so try that method of synchronization and see if it solves your problem.

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Posted on: April 03, 2017 @ 09:49 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  368
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

Roman, I’m looking forward to hearing your follow up.

Thanks.

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Posted on: April 04, 2017 @ 06:42 PM
roman
Total Posts:  24
Joined  01-03-2006
status: Regular

The ‘galloping’ effect is consistent. In other words it stays out of sync by the same amount continuously. So it isn’t catching up.
Nothing to do with fast forwarding or rewinding. As I clearly stated, it is when the record count in is on. It syncs when I turn the record count in off.
So the MPC doesn’t have a problem because it does successfully sync if I turn the count in off.

I really need to communicate with people who are syncing sequencers like the MPC to their Motif. So that we can be practical and see if the same fault is reproducible.

Also, I need to know how to alert Yamaha Motif team to this fault and the other thread about quantisation not working for the first quarter bar.

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Posted on: April 04, 2017 @ 06:44 PM
roman
Total Posts:  24
Joined  01-03-2006
status: Regular

Even though I have subscribed to this thread. I don’t get email notifications.
I can’t see this thread or forum having any value for me unless people can try to reproduce the issues I am having.

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Posted on: April 05, 2017 @ 04:38 AM
meatballfulton
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Total Posts:  2981
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

No, the MPC is probably in the wrong. It is starting during the count in and not waiting for bar 1 (which would be indicated by SPP).  If you have a DAW or MIDI monitor search for the Start message from the Motif and see when it was sent.

If you need a count in, please try what I suggested...remove the count in but add one or more blank bars to the beginning of the sequence. You can delete them when you are done recording.

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Posted on: April 05, 2017 @ 08:47 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  368
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

adding to meatballfulton’s suggestions:

have you tried changing the master-slave relationship?

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