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Viewing topic "Motif -to- Montage -to Motif - Montage Midi/Song integration"

     
Posted on: March 06, 2017 @ 08:11 AM
lastmonk
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status: Experienced

I recently purchased a Motif XF8 over the Montage in part because of the short comings of the Montage in the sequencing department, and in part because I realize I might not be able to get a new Motif XF8 if I waited too long.

But I’m leaving the possibility open of adding a Montage 6 or 7 to my rig in the not to distant future.

My question is for those who have both, will I be able to bring in Montage Midi/ song files into my Motif Sequencer and do editing on my Motif and send the results back to the Montage to be played?

I really use Cubase as only as last resort.  I’ve read that Yamaha expected the Montage owner to do midi editing in Cubase and then bring the results back to Montage to play live, but I’m wondering whether I could use my Motif to do my Montage (If I buy one) editing and then be able to play the midi/song file on either my Montage or Motif?

Anybody know?  Anybody tried this yet?  Is this a crazy question?
Beyond just the midi integration, how strong is the integration between the Motif and Montage in general?

And every time I read Yamaha’s response to the question of why no full sequencer.,.  urgh!!!

http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8609

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Posted on: March 06, 2017 @ 12:59 PM
philwoodmusic
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lastmonk - 06 March 2017 08:11 AM


And every time I read Yamaha’s response to the question of why no full sequencer.,.  urgh!!!

http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8609

They’ll try and take the keys away next.

Maybe you should invest in an old stand alone hardware MIDI sequencer.  Then no matter what comes out, you’re covered.  You may have to bust out the floppy disks though.

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Posted on: March 06, 2017 @ 04:02 PM
meatballfulton
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The market has spoken...you won’t find any standalone song based sequencers any more either. The vast majority of users has moved to DAWs, like it or not.

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Posted on: March 06, 2017 @ 05:39 PM
lastmonk
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Wowah....  LOL

First folks, my avatar is a picture of a QY100, its a live and well and I still use it all the time especially because its so portable.  It has batteries and a headphone, so I can take my sequences with me, edit them, it has a keyboard, built in, it has built in phrases (the forerunners or basis of the arpeggiator), 16 tracks, saves to SD and the whole nine.  I treat it well and it treats me well.  At this very moment its has two midi cables connecting it to my MM8, which does not have any midi editing only a midi recorder (like the montage).

Secondly I have two other hardware sequencers.  1 is built into my Motif XF8, and the other is built into my MOX 8.

Third, I have a Tascam Porta Studio that FN rox .  So I have dedicated hardware recorders and editors for all the gear that I currently have. 

So as far as dedicated hardware sequencers I’m good, I’m covered.  I was just curious whether if I purchased a montage 6 or 7 would I be able to:

1. Fully render a Montage song as Midi ( learned earlier today that the montage song format is not compatible with the Motif)

2. Bring that Midi into my Motif or MOX and edit it there and then

3. load it back into the Montage and have it still have the Montage magic

Conceptually, it sounds like it should be doable but I’ve heard so much strange stuff about Montage voices, multiple midi channels, and all sort of other innovations that might not make the Midi stuff as straight forward as I would imagine it to be.

I was hoping someone on Motifator who had a Motif and a Montage could answer the Midi integration question.

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Posted on: March 06, 2017 @ 11:51 PM
dsetto
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Joined  01-24-2014
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I’ll begin by saying I don’t have a Montage. My guess is:

In Montage, you can record a single track midi file. I would imagine you can get that into the XF, and go from there.
You may be able to sync the two together. ?

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Posted on: March 07, 2017 @ 06:03 AM
lastmonk
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Yea, I’ve read a few posts over on YamahaSynth that makes me think
that Midi integration between the two might not necessarily be as straight forward as I want it to be:

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/voice-compatibility-montage-motif-xf

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/clarification-about-montage-midi-sequencer-editing-capabilities.

A quote from Bad Mister on YamahaSynth (complete link above)

“Because your basic playable sounds now can occupy multiple Channels of MIDI, life in the Montage world is a bit different. For example, a single playable Motion Control engine Performance could occupy 8 MIDI channels… Let that sink in for a minute. You can, while performing change strings into strings with brass swells, changing the size of the string ensemble and the brass ensembles from solo instruments, to quartets through to the entire orchestral ensemble… Each of these musical Parts on its own Midi Channel, on its own Track. Sending each of these segments to separate Midi channels and/or to separate audio outputs!!! Remember, the Montage features 32 bus audio outputs (stereo plus 30 assignable audio bus outs! Simultaneously!)”

Has me wondering what difficulties would be involved if I were to buy a montage 6 or 7 and then try to use my Motif as the midi sequence editor for it. On the surface I would think my Motif has a midi sequence editor built in, I should be able edit Montage Midi on my Motif right?

In my small world, its much easier to bring the midi file into my Motif, MOX or even my QY100 for that matter to edit notes, add measures, move measures around, copy tracks, change note durations, experiment with different orchestrations, mess with time signatures, etc. And then once I’m done render it or paint it to my Tascam.  The Montage has some really nice stuff going on, really nice, lots of synth power, lots! The possibilities sound endless, and I am contemplating buying one this summer, but if the Montage is forcing me to add a computer to my day to day workflow… I dunno…

The marketing on Montage emphasizes “live performance” but live performance can and does mean different things to different musicians, especially those of us who take liberties with live synthesis.  I’ve been on several gigs where I was building and stacking loops, jacking with envelopes, in conjunction with sequences in real-time, and between sets, making modifications to the sequences & loops to give it something a little different for the next 45. Yamaha should be aware of this kind of live performance, where part of the keyboard player’s solo is to freak the audience out with some of the crazy stuff that can be done with his gear.  I know my audiences love it.  LOL.

To be sure stacking loops, and messing with midi sequences in real time is not everyone’s cup of tea, but some of us do engage in this deviant activity.

But to be fair to the Montage which is marketed as a music synthesizer for live performance, I’m probably talking more about “live music production” performances where the audience gets a taste of real-time synthesis/midi programming and editing LOL.

I get that Yamaha has made the Montage their new flagship., but as its been pointed out b4, many Motif owners will likely still have their Motifs 10+ years from now, and my guess is that lots of those Motif owners will add a Montage to their gear at some point in the future :-)

So the reason for my post is to find out how good is the integration between the Motif and Montage.  I know you can’t edit Motif’s Midi files on the Montage, and you can’t load a Montage song file into a Motif, but can you practically edit Montage midi on the Motif and then send it back to the Montage and get the results you would expect?

Can you use Motif’s Midi to control the Montage and vice versa?  Obviously the Montage has a different architecture, and bigger in some sense than the Motif, but in terms of Midi control in a live performance situation is Montage truly Midi friendly?  Does it play well with others in the Midi stack?  Zones, Channels, XG, clocks, etc.

On the low end the Montage6 I think is about $2999 USD.  I want to know for that kind of cheese how well it plays with my other gear, especially since my other gear (for my day-to-day) does not include a computer or my Cubase setup. I use Cubase only when I’m forced (which is rare).

Maybe, the implication here is that in live performance with Montage you won’t need any other gear ;-)

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