Stashman - 09 January 2017 11:38 PM

...I must have (somehow) loaded the sample data again.

I just don’t get how I can keep making the same mistake?....

See discussion of NONE above.  That is how to avoid re-LOADING your Sample Data!

Stick with it, you are getting close to an AHA moment!

cmayhle - 09 January 2017 11:07 PM

We hadn’t really discussed LOAD yet, I thought we were still on SAVE!

When it comes to LOAD, you want to choose NONE on the LOAD fields next to FL1 and FL2. (Lower right corner of screen).

NONE.  That will keep any sample data in your ALL File from being re-LOADED to your Flash Board(s)!

From This Article (scroll toward the end):

“...Say Yamaha provides you with a couple hundred MB of free data (Inspiration In A Flash)… And you install that data into your FL512M in slot 1. Once you do, you don’t have to resave a file with all that data. You inevitably will start creating your own Songs, Patterns, etc. and you will need to back up your new compositions in an ALL data file. Keep the original “Inspiration In a Flash.X3A” in a safe place, and start creating your own ALL data files. You simply would SAVE an ALL data file with the FL boards set to “without sample”. This would create a much, much smaller ALL data file with just your Voices, your Songs, your Patterns, your SDRAM, your MASTERS, your Performances, and your Utility mode settings - everything but the samples that are now resident (burned) on your FL1 board.

When you want to LOAD your data back you will want to have the LOAD TYPE = ALL with the Load options set as follows:

· USR > USR
· FL1 > None
· FL2 > None

This will return any samples you have done to the Integrated Sampler (ISS) to SDRAM, and it will not duplicate any Waveform data, nor will it duplicate any samples on your FL board. No need, the FLASH board data is non-volatile – and still contains the data you burned to it.

The FLx > NONE option allows you to just load Voice parameters without loading either Waveforms or Sample wave data.
BE CAREFUL, IF YOU USE LOAD “WITHOUT SAMPLE” INSTEAD OF “NONE”, THE XF WILL DUPLICATE ALL THE WAVEFORMS (pointers) AND YOU WILL END UP WITH HUNDREDS OF EXTRA WAVEFORMS.

When you start to create your own customized Waveform and Sample setups on your FLASH Board(s) make sure you make a full backup of your customized Library. That is, SAVE as an ALL data file “with samples”. Keep that as an archive file. And anytime you change your Flash board installed Waveforms and Samples, make sure you create a new archive file....”

Very Important:  Once you have installed Sample Data to your FL1 or FL2, by all means do a back-up All File SAVE.  However, DON’T keep re-LOADING the Sample Data!  That’s why you use NONE on your All File LOADS for the FL1 and FL2 LOAD fields.

cmayhle, I didn’t even see this response! My apologies.
I’m having to constantly check back here, as my email is not notifying me of replies.

Once I’m back to square one and have the Motif the way I had it, I will start from THIS point.
I NOW know how I duplicated the samples, from your reply!
Thanks again for your patience!

the Motif is now back to where I had it. Loaded W-IAF.
I am now making an ALL FILE - WITH Sample.
If I reload this data at a later time, I set to load with no sample?

As I’m waiting, I think I’m beginning to understand...a little.
Flash samples will ALWAYS remain in Flash. Period?
And, if I’m understanding this correctly, the only thing that changes when I add new voices, that do NOT contain samples, is the pathway? Am I right so far?
I think its all I have presently.

I am however curious, as I think I have a voice bank somewhere (Not IAF) for instance that is labeled for Bank 4, and what if I want to put that bank instead, to say, bank 3? Would the Motif know the path? Or, am I getting ahead of things?
I do see where it says “Type” 1 bank voice (thats how I loaded IAF-1 bank at a time) and then it says, “Bank”
and then you choose USER 1-2-3-4 etc. Is that all there is too that?

Hoping I’m understanding this much fellas? This old noggin’ is running on fumes…

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

the Motif is now back to where I had it. Loaded W-IAF.
I am now making an ALL FILE - WITH Sample.
If I reload this data at a later time, I set to load with no sample?…

NO!  You set it (FL1/FL2) to LOAD with NONE.

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

As I’m waiting, I think I’m beginning to understand...a little.
Flash samples will ALWAYS remain in Flash. Period?....

They will remain in Flash unless/until you consciously go through the exercise to delete them.  From the Article linked previously:

“...Once data is installed on the Flash Memory Expansion Module there are only two ways to uninstall that data: DELETE it or FORMAT the board.

·Press [UTILITY]
·Press [F6] FLASH
_ [SF1] DELETE ONE
_ [SF2] DELETE ALL
_ [SF3] FORMAT....”

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

...And, if I’m understanding this correctly, the only thing that changes when I add new voices, that do NOT contain samples, is the pathway?....

When you LOAD VOICES such as the 80’s Pop Libraries you purchased...which do NOT contain new Sample Data...your FL1/FL2 are not affected in any way.  Such VOICES simply go into USER VOICE BANK locations in the machine (which you have the ability to define), and address native Sample Data that came with the machine before you ever purchased the Flash Board(s).

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

I am however curious, as I think I have a voice bank somewhere (Not IAF) for instance that is labeled for Bank 4, and what if I want to put that bank instead, to say, bank 3? Would the Motif know the path? ...

No, the Motif will not know you want to LOAD it to BANK 3 unless you tell it!

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

...I do see where it says “Type” 1 bank voice (thats how I loaded IAF-1 bank at a time) and then it says, “Bank”
and then you choose USER 1-2-3-4 etc. Is that all there is too that?....

YES!  But be clear, you must specify not only the Source BANK, but the Destination BANK as well.

Carefully read through: Loading a specific Voice or all the Voices of a specific Bank from an “all” or “all voice” file on page 243 of the XF Reference Manual.

cmayhle - 10 January 2017 01:41 AM

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

the Motif is now back to where I had it. Loaded W-IAF.
I am now making an ALL FILE - WITH Sample.
If I reload this data at a later time, I set to load with no sample?…

NO!  You set it (FL1/FL2) to LOAD with NONE.

Okay, got it! I think thats what I meant, it just wasn’t coming out correctly :-)

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

As I’m waiting, I think I’m beginning to understand...a little.
Flash samples will ALWAYS remain in Flash. Period?....

They will remain in Flash unless/until you consciously go through the exercise to delete them.

That makes complete sense as well!

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

...And, if I’m understanding this correctly, the only thing that changes when I add new voices, that do NOT contain samples, is the pathway?....

When you LOAD VOICES such as the 80’s Pop Libraries you purchased...which do NOT contain new Sample Data...your FL1/FL2 are not affected in any way.  Such VOICES simply go into USER VOICE BANK locations in the machine, and address native Sample Data that came with the machine before you ever purchased the Flash Board(s).

Yes, as I had thought!

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

I am however curious, as I think I have a voice bank somewhere (Not IAF) for instance that is labeled for Bank 4, and what if I want to put that bank instead, to say, bank 3? Would the Motif know the path? ...

No, the Motif will not know you want to LOAD it to BANK 3 unless you tell it!

Okay, this is where I just had a problem.
I saved my ALL FILE after I loading the Motif With IAF. Its exactly how I had it before.
So now, I tried to load 80"s P/R over the existing setup and tried to load using 1 user bank, and set it to User 4. Well, that didn’t work. User Bank 4 said , “initialized” throughout the Bank.
So, for giggles (not really) I loaded the ALL FILE 80’s #II . set USR-USR, FL1-NONE, FL2-NONE. All works, although I’m not finding the performances like I did the first time? Hmm… I hit a snag, but slowly its becoming more clear.

Stashman - 10 January 2017 01:08 AM

...I do see where it says “Type” 1 bank voice (thats how I loaded IAF-1 bank at a time) and then it says, “Bank”
and then you choose USER 1-2-3-4 etc. Is that all there is too that?....

YES!

Sorry, Half of my NEW post is intertwined with your replies…

So, now that I’ve once again gotten lost in the path, I’m now going to try and load my original ALL FILE and see if that works like I’ve envisioned. Hopefully that brings me back where I started and I can continue making process from there. I’m sure hoping so, as it takes a so LONG in starting from scratch, from the very beginning, every time I make a boo-boo…

Cmayhle, continued thanks for your help in filling in the blanks!

Success! In that I was able to load the original ALL FILE! I feel I made real progress. Its a LOT for me.
Thinking that thats enough for tonight too.
Tomorrow I can start to experiment with some of the other voices I have and see if I can manage to learn just a little bit more… Small steps.

Cmayhle, I wouldn’t have gotten this far without your help! Hoping I can lean on you a little at a time.
BEST to you!

Stashman - 10 January 2017 02:02 AM

...So, now that I’ve once again gotten lost in the path, I’m now going to try and load my original ALL FILE and see if that works like I’ve envisioned. Hopefully that brings me back where I started and I can continue making process from there. I’m sure hoping so, as it takes a so LONG in starting from scratch, from the very beginning, every time I make a boo-boo....

Here is the light at the end of the tunnel:

Once you have your Sample Data installed on the Flash Board (and have SAVED a backup), you NEVER need to go through the time-consuming process of SAVING or LOADING your sample data again...because THAT is what takes the LOOOONG time blocks.

I’m exaggerating a bit of course, because if you ADD or SUBTRACT something from your Flash Board, you will need to repeat the exercise.  However, you should not be going through the constant repetition you are being overwhelmed with now!

Choose your Sample data carefully, SAVE it ONCE to USB for backup...and then you do not need to have it clog up your SAVES or LOADS again.

Even if you temporarily remove VOICES from the machine that utilize Samples STORED on the Flash Board, leave them there.

They will be waiting for you next time you LOAD the VOICES that need them!

You’re absoloutly CORRECT! And that was KEY!
It took so long for the sample data to load and that was the biggest obstacle for me...disappointment.
But now thats figured out, whew!
Maybe tomorrow you could explain to me how to know if new voices contain samples or not?
How to know, if theres no info provided?
And How to know if the data can be loaded 1 bank at a time?
So much to learn, and I’m SO appreciative of your time and help here!
I feel like I made some REAL progress :-)

Stashman - 10 January 2017 02:28 AM

You’re absoloutly CORRECT! And that was KEY!
It took so long for the sample data to load and that was the biggest obstacle for me...disappointment.
But now thats figured out, whew!
Maybe tomorrow you could explain to me how to know if new voices contain samples or not?
How to know, if theres no info provided?
And How to know if the data can be loaded 1 bank at a time?
So much to learn, and I’m SO appreciative of your time and help here!
I feel like I made some REAL progress :-)

Usually 3rd party libraries are pretty clear whether new sample data are involved, although sometimes a very careful reading of the description is required.

Virtually all 3rd party libraries contain a single 128 VOICE BANK of VOICES, with perhaps some PERFORMANCES mixed in… maybe a MASTER for some particular reason.

Generally speaking, any of them can be LOADED either as single VOICES, or as single/multiple BANK(s) of VOICES… similar if PERFORMANCES are involved.

I cannot think of any circumstance that would result in my LOADING a 3rd party library as an ALL FILE… even though virtually every one of them instructs you to do just that!

cmayhle - 11 January 2017 04:37 AM

Stashman - 10 January 2017 02:28 AM

You’re absoloutly CORRECT! And that was KEY!
It took so long for the sample data to load and that was the biggest obstacle for me...disappointment.
But now thats figured out, whew!
Maybe tomorrow you could explain to me how to know if new voices contain samples or not?
How to know, if theres no info provided?
And How to know if the data can be loaded 1 bank at a time?
So much to learn, and I’m SO appreciative of your time and help here!
I feel like I made some REAL progress :-)

Usually 3rd party libraries are pretty clear whether new sample data are involved, although sometimes a very careful reading of the description is required.

Virtually all 3rd party libraries contain a single 128 VOICE BANK of VOICES, with perhaps some PERFORMANCES mixed in… maybe a MASTER for some particular reason.

Generally speaking, any of them can be LOADED either as single VOICES, or as single/multiple BANK(s) of VOICES… similar if PERFORMANCES are involved.

I cannot think of any circumstance that would result in my LOADING a 3rd party library as an ALL FILE… even though virtually every one of them instructs you to do just that!

I have a dentist appointment this morning, then I’m coming home to approach this once again.
Some of the sounds that I’ve downloaded through the years have NO documentation with them and when I tried loading them I ended up with blank banks, stating “initialized”? and no sounds. I have NO idea what “intialized” even means… I’m getting so close in gaining this part of my understanding. Just a few more blanks to fill in…
Hopefully I can conquer this today!

Stashman - 11 January 2017 01:35 PM

[...] Some of the sounds that I’ve downloaded through the years have NO documentation with them and when I tried loading them I ended up with blank banks, stating “initialized”? and no sounds.

I suggest you use an editor program to investigate the contents of such files before loading them. You should then be able to make appropriate decisions about what to load, and where.

 

Stashman -

I have NO idea what “intialized” even means…

It means that the initialized Voice, Performance, or Master has the basic default Parameters set up, and is ready to be programmed for your needs.

 

Stashman -

I’m getting so close in gaining this part of my understanding. Just a few more blanks to fill in…
Hopefully I can conquer this today!

You’ll get there - just keep asking any questions that arise.

5pinDIN - 11 January 2017 01:50 PM

Stashman - 11 January 2017 01:35 PM

[...] Some of the sounds that I’ve downloaded through the years have NO documentation with them and when I tried loading them I ended up with blank banks, stating “initialized”? and no sounds.

I suggest you use an editor program to investigate the contents of such files before loading them. You should then be able to make appropriate decisions about what to load, and where.

 

Stashman -

I have NO idea what “intialized” even means…

It means that the initialized Voice, Performance, or Master has the basic default Parameters set up, and is ready to be programmed for your needs.

 

Stashman -

I’m getting so close in gaining this part of my understanding. Just a few more blanks to fill in…
Hopefully I can conquer this today!

You’ll get there - just keep asking any questions that arise.

Thanks 5pinDIN.
Would such program be, The Melas Wavefrom Editor?
Is that the only one? Or do I NEED the full suite?
If I just need the Editor, I want to order right now to get this moving along.

Thanks you guys, I am making progress! 👍

Stashman - 11 January 2017 05:09 PM

Thanks 5pinDIN.
Would such program be, The Melas Wavefrom Editor?
Is that the only one? Or do I NEED the full suite?
If I just need the Editor, I want to order right now to get this moving along.

Thanks you guys, I am making progress! 👍

You’re welcome.

Both the Melas XF Total Librarian and the Waveform Editor could come in handy. For now, I’d suggest downloading the demos and get an idea of what’s in some of the files whose contents you’re not sure of. Once you know what’s in User Banks, how many samples there are, etc., you should be able to determine the best approach to loading the data. Of course, if you want to use the Melas software for manipulating files, that would require purchases.

By the way, Motif “All” files of about 2 MB in size typically don’t contain samples. Sample libraries are usually several, sometimes hundreds, of MB.

Again thank you 5pinDIN.
To Cmayhle and you, your patience has been very much appreciated.
Very kind of you both!

I wasn’t aware of the “free”, or “demo”, versions, offering this level of helpfulness…
I assumed that they were more of “look what I can do”, instead of being hands-on.
So I was hesitant to try these, until now.

I’m now downloading the demos.
I’m sure I will be purchasing whichever Program/s that helps me organize all my sounds, so that I can place only the sounds I like in the Motif, or on the Flash. I’m not sure which one that would be?
Waveform Editor, or Total Librarian?

Stashman, I would get them both if I were you, based on the totality of the discussion in this thread.  But then, I own all of John’s programs, and wouldn’t give up any of them.

The beauty is, you can try them both and then decide for yourself!

My recommendation:  Take a test-drive with his other programs also.