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Viewing topic "Very little volume on stage"

     
Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 11:13 AM
Mighty Motif Max
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Hi! I play keyboards in my church band, which consists of a baby grand piano, a Pearl drum set, two guitarists (one acoustic and one electric), and a bass guitarist, plus three female singers (the acoustic guitarist sings too - tenor male). I use my Motif XF8 with a YS200 as a midi controller. My playing comes through fine out in the seating, but cancels out in the stage monitors. I can only hear what I am playing if no more than two others are playing. For example, I am using a layer of two combo organ voices (Tiny Bars 1 and Fr reedy tabs?) for a surf version of “Joy To the World”. As soon as the other instruments start, that sound does not punch through at all, even though it is supposed to. I have amped the high frequency using the EQ, which should work. But it does not. If I use the headphones fro the jack on the XF8, then I do not know what the volume is compared to the other instruments. We only have mono passive monitors, but my keyboard is outputting in stereo. Could that be part or the problem? I have the volume set high, and it is quite loud on its own.

Thanks!

-Max

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 11:41 AM
cmayhle
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I recall This Discussion a while back.

I’m not sure where you ended up with your monitor search, but from this current post it sounds as though you are playing through a common stage monitor system.

If so...and you do not have a system set up such that you can have your own custom mix...then you are certainly going to have a real challenge monitoring yourself adequately.

I’m not going to rehash the entire previous discussion, but in my opinion you really need a stereo-pair of pro-quality personal keyboard monitors flanking you on either side,as you play behind your keyboard(s), using a small format mixer if multiple inputs are required.

You simply cannot get a personal mix that will allow you to monitor your playing adequately using a single common mix, in a large group of performers.  If the mix was right for you, it would be way too keyboard-centric for everyone else.

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 12:31 PM
Mighty Motif Max
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cmayhle - 24 December 2016 11:41 AM

I recall This Discussion a while back.

I’m not sure where you ended up with your monitor search, but from this current post it sounds as though you are playing through a common stage monitor system.

If so...and you do not have a system set up such that you can have your own custom mix...then you are certainly going to have a real challenge monitoring yourself adequately.

I’m not going to rehash the entire previous discussion, but in my opinion you really need stereo-pair of pro-quality personal keyboard monitors flanking you on either side,as you play behind your keyboard(s), using a small format mixer if multiple inputs are required.

You simply cannot get a personal mix that will allow you to monitor your playing adequately using a single common mix, in a large group of performers.  If the mix was right for you, it would be way too keyboard-centric for everyone else.

How would I set hat up and also have the keyboard going through the sound system and audio people in back?

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 01:32 PM
5pinDIN
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If for some reason (cost, etc.) it’s not possible for you to have your own monitors as cmayhle has suggested, “open-air" / "open back” headphones might do the trick. Rather than isolating the listener from their surroundings, they allow a certain amount of ambient sound to be heard. You could adjust the XF’s output so that your playing and the sounds of others are balanced to your liking with such headphones. Then levels could be adjusted for the stage monitor and “house” to get an acceptable mix for those purposes.

By the way, unless you’ve done something about the issue of low key velocity from the YS200, that might be a contributing factor - low key velocity tends to produce output weak in the range of frequencies that cut through in a mix.

Also, if you have no choice but to use a mono monitor mix, you could try feeding only the R output (right channel) of the XF for that purpose, as opposed to using the L/MONO output. For some Voices/Performances, that might sound better.

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 01:58 PM
Mighty Motif Max
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5pinDIN - 24 December 2016 01:32 PM

If for some reason (cost, etc.) it’s not possible for you to have your own monitors as cmayhle has suggested, “open-air" / "open back” headphones might do the trick. Rather than isolating the listener from their surroundings, they allow a certain amount of ambient sound to be heard. You could adjust the XF’s output so that your playing and the sounds of others are balanced to your liking with such headphones. Then levels could be adjusted for the stage monitor and “house” to get an acceptable mix for those purposes.

By the way, unless you’ve done something about the issue of low key velocity from the YS200, that might be a contributing factor - low key velocity tends to produce output weak in the range of frequencies that cut through in a mix.

Also, if you have no choice but to use a mono monitor mix, you could try feeding only the R output (right channel) of the XF for that purpose, as opposed to using the L/MONO output. For some Voices/Performances, that might sound better.

Thanks!

I am not referring to the YS200 - anything that I play on that seems to work fine, for some reason.

The monitor feeds the full sound of everybody in the band. They are not specific to your instrument, so I don’t know about using only the right channel of the XF. Then the whole system would only get the one channel, which detracts from sound quality.

The XF8’s stereo outputs are run into two DI boxes. From there, two XLR cables connect into a box that holds all of the inputs and sends them to the mixing boards in the back.

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 02:08 PM
cmayhle
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Mighty Motif Max - 24 December 2016 12:31 PM

How would I set hat up and also have the keyboard going through the sound system and audio people in back?

You need to have two feeds.

A mixer will have Main Outs and Monitor Outs...as well as a level control for each.

Main Outs go to the main board, which will send your keyboards back to the common monitor system.

Monitor Outs can be sent directly to your personal monitor system, which is controlled by you for your personal keyboard level requirements.

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Posted on: December 24, 2016 @ 03:06 PM
5pinDIN
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Mighty Motif Max - 24 December 2016 01:58 PM

I am not referring to the YS200 - anything that I play on that seems to work fine, for some reason.

Perhaps I misinterpreted “I use my Motif XF8 with a YS200 as a midi controller”. Is the YS200 controlling the XF8, or not? If it is, then the YS200’s key velocity will have an impact.

 

Mighty Motif Max -

The monitor feeds the full sound of everybody in the band. They are not specific to your instrument, so I don’t know about using only the right channel of the XF. Then the whole system would only get the one channel, which detracts from sound quality.

The XF8’s stereo outputs are run into two DI boxes. From there, two XLR cables connect into a box that holds all of the inputs and sends them to the mixing boards in the back.

Obviously I don’t know exactly how things are configured, but (based on your description) at some point the XF’s two channels are being mixed to mono for the stage monitor. Wherever that is, it should be possible to either unplug the feed from the XF’s left channel, or pan to the right.

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Posted on: December 26, 2016 @ 09:39 PM
stoneb3
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Mighty Motif Max - 24 December 2016 11:13 AM

My playing comes through fine out in the seating, but cancels out in the stage monitors.

Thanks!
-Max

Treat yourself and score a mixer. There’s plenty to choose from at a reasonable price. Send FOH what you want and use the Aux out to hit your MSR100. Might sound like doo dah until you grab another MSR or better and at that point you could use the Control Room/Headphone bus for yourself, if the board has it, most do. Outside of the Church you play gigs with multiple instruments. Simplify, mixer. I can’t imagine reaching behind an MSR fiddling with the knobs while wearing an accordion.
Of course for all we know your Church may have a digital mixer with 10 Aux sends and could provide you with what you need. At this point we don’t know and I’m not convinced from your postings that they do either. Control your lot with your own rig. You’ll be happier, and hear what you’re doing.

Stone

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