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Viewing topic "Is there any difference between the XS and XF sampler wise? UPDATE"

   
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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 09:39 AM
bignoface
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Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer

Hey,

I’ve been a Motif ES user for a while. I mainly used it for its sampler and pattern sequencer. I sold it recently with the intent to buy one of the new XFs. I was wondering though, did Yamaha make any differences between the samplers in the XS and XF? If there is anyone here that has used both please let me know. It’s hard to find info on the sampler beyond the sample ram vs flash ram (which I have zero use for). If I can get a used XS for cheaper I will since I don’t really care for the additional stock sounds. Also do the outputs sound any different ofrom are they both relatively clear? All feedback is appreciated!

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 10:09 AM
5pinDIN
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Welcome to the forum.

Yamaha claims better DACs in the XF than the XS.

Here are two recordings, one made with my XS6 and the other with my XF6…

http://www.motifator.com/index.php?ACT=39&fid=165&aid=13951_CGAaGKwCFPF7MCnRh0yJ&board_id=1

http://www.motifator.com/index.php?ACT=39&fid=165&aid=13952_CwXUjIn738hcpeHvJJNs&board_id=1

...does one sound better than the other to you?

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 10:35 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  370
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

What is the max ram XS can read?

From my XF user perspective, I see the value of both the XS and XF user sample approaches. 5pinDIN once wrote about that, and I didn’t get it. Since it sounds you have a clear dominant use, I would almost pick which approach works best for you - as one of the guiding aspects.

I think it boils down to:
Allocation of time for “samples readiness”. I think this is a function of the quantity, size and frequency of different samples you want access to. And workflow.

I see the XF approach shaping my workflow approach. I see the XS approach may influence the workflow a little differently.

And as you likely know:

XS: quicker to load a new waveform. But, is required on each power-up.
XF: opposite.

Note that I have no personal experience with an XS.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 11:12 AM
5pinDIN
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dsetto - 14 December 2016 10:35 AM

What is the max ram XS can read? [...]

An XS can have up to 2 GB of SDRAM (DIMMs) installed. (The Owner’s Manual says 1 GB, but that’s incorrect.)

Of that, a single stereo sample can have a maximum size of 64 MB in the XS, just like the XF.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 02:22 PM
bignoface
Total Posts:  10
Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 14 December 2016 10:09 AM

Welcome to the forum.

Yamaha claims better DACs in the XF than the XF
.

Here are two recordings, one made with my XS6 and the other with my XF6…

http://www.motifator.com/index.php?ACT=39&fid=165&aid=13951_CGAaGKwCFPF7MCnRh0yJ&board_id=1

http://www.motifator.com/index.php?ACT=39&fid=165&aid=13952_CwXUjIn738hcpeHvJJNs&board_id=1

...does one sound better than the other to you?

Better in the XS or the XF? Since you’ve used both is there any difference in how the integrated sampling Works? Did Yamaha update it at all in the XF? I did test the XF at Guitar Center by samplimg some AL Green from my phone. The OS did seem slow in comparison to my ES when it came to editing the sample but I was thinking that an OS update probably has fixed that since it was released. If the integrated sampling function is identical I might get the XS since it’s cheaper.

In those 2 audio examples that you posted they both sound identical to me. The ES had this weird hum/static sound that I had to get a hum eliminator to get rid of while tracking out into my DAW. As long as neither of them have that and the signal comes through clean, I’ll be content. If anyone has any experience tracking out the XS and XF, your feedback will be greatly appreciated as well.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 03:36 PM
5pinDIN
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bignoface - 14 December 2016 02:22 PM

Better in the XS or the XF?

Sorry - Yamaha says XF DACs are better than those in XS (corrected in my previous post).

 

bignoface -

Since you’ve used both is there any difference in how the integrated sampling Works? Did Yamaha update it at all in the XF? I did test the XF at Guitar Center by samplimg some AL Green from my phone. The OS did seem slow in comparison to my ES when it came to editing the sample but I was thinking that an OS update probably has fixed that since it was released. If the integrated sampling function is identical I might get the XS since it’s cheaper.

Recently I use my XF more than the XS, but as far as I recall the sampling procedures are identical (other than those related to the flash modules, of course) when both models have the most recent OS updates installed. Since I’ve never used an ES for sampling, I can’t compare its operation in that respect.

 

bignoface -

In those 2 audio examples that you posted they both sound identical to me. The ES had this weird hum/static sound that I had to get a hum eliminator to get rid of while tracking out into my DAW. As long as neither of them have that and the signal comes through clean, I’ll be content. If anyone has any experience tracking out the XS and XF, your feedback will be greatly appreciated as well.

The “A” WAV is from the XF, “B” from the XS. I suspect that if optional flash modules, and additional Waveforms, Arps, and effects truly don’t matter to you, then an XS will probably suit your needs.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 05:04 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  370
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

There’s a “slowness” to the OS on the XF. I accept it. I cannot recall reading a significant difference in integrated sampling mode on XF. Perhaps, ability to tie in a sample into a sequence. Not sure if that’s possible on the XS. That’s a big deal for the person that cares about that. Here on motifator, there’s a comparison of the two boards.

XF Flash Boards are expensive.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 05:48 PM
5pinDIN
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dsetto - 14 December 2016 05:04 PM

[...]Perhaps, ability to tie in a sample into a sequence. Not sure if that’s possible on the XS. [...]

If by “tie in a sample into a sequence” you’re referring to converting a Sample Voice into a Mixing Voice, then that was made possible on the XS with OS version 1.60. If that’s not what you meant, then please elaborate.

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Posted on: December 14, 2016 @ 08:00 PM
bignoface
Total Posts:  10
Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer
dsetto - 14 December 2016 05:04 PM

There’s a “slowness” to the OS on the XF. I accept it. I cannot recall reading a significant difference in integrated sampling mode on XF. Perhaps, ability to tie in a sample into a sequence. Not sure if that’s possible on the XS. That’s a big deal for the person that cares about that. Here on motifator, there’s a comparison of the two boards.

XF Flash Boards are expensive.

I’m pretty sure the XS can integrate samples within a sequence. The ES and the XF can do it so I’m pretty sure an XS can do it as well.

What is your feelings on the OS slow down in the XF though? Is it that annoying to deal with when navigating the XS? Also does the XS have the same amount of “slowness” with the OS too or is that a new feature exclusive to the XF?

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Posted on: December 15, 2016 @ 05:24 AM
meatballfulton
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The sampling in the XF is identical to the XS.

What is different is the amount of RAM (as mentioned above) and on playback the improved XF DACs may have an audible effect depending on the sample.

The XS and XF have similar integrated sampling features to the ES. I have never used every single thing in that mode (I had an ES, now an XF) but it has Loop Remix, Slice, Time Stretch, Pitch Shift, the editor screen for setting start, end and loop points, etc.

I don’t recall anything that I used on the ES that is missing.

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Posted on: December 15, 2016 @ 09:18 AM
bignoface
Total Posts:  10
Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer
meatballfulton - 15 December 2016 05:24 AM

The sampling in the XF is identical to the XS.

What is different is the amount of RAM (as mentioned above) and on playback the improved XF DACs may have an audible effect depending on the sample.

The XS and XF have similar integrated sampling features to the ES. I have never used every single thing in that mode (I had an ES, now an XF) but it has Loop Remix, Slice, Time Stretch, Pitch Shift, the editor screen for setting start, end and loop points, etc.

I don’t recall anything that I used on the ES that is missing.

Do you hear a notable difference in the sound quality coming from the ES via the audio inputs and outs? I’m leaning towards the XF but will consider the XS if I can find it cheap enough

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Posted on: December 15, 2016 @ 10:21 AM
bignoface
Total Posts:  10
Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 14 December 2016 03:36 PM
bignoface - 14 December 2016 02:22 PM

Better in the XS or the XF?

Sorry - Yamaha says XF DACs are better than those in XS (corrected in my previous post).

 

bignoface -

Since you’ve used both is there any difference in how the integrated sampling Works? Did Yamaha update it at all in the XF? I did test the XF at Guitar Center by samplimg some AL Green from my phone. The OS did seem slow in comparison to my ES when it came to editing the sample but I was thinking that an OS update probably has fixed that since it was released. If the integrated sampling function is identical I might get the XS since it’s cheaper.

Recently I use my XF more than the XS, but as far as I recall the sampling procedures are identical (other than those related to the flash modules, of course) when both models have the most recent OS updates installed. Since I’ve never used an ES for sampling, I can’t compare its operation in that respect.

 

bignoface -

In those 2 audio examples that you posted they both sound identical to me. The ES had this weird hum/static sound that I had to get a hum eliminator to get rid of while tracking out into my DAW. As long as neither of them have that and the signal comes through clean, I’ll be content. If anyone has any experience tracking out the XS and XF, your feedback will be greatly appreciated as well.

The “A” WAV is from the XF, “B” from the XS. I suspect that if optional flash modules, and additional Waveforms, Arps, and effects truly don’t matter to you, then an XS will probably suit your needs.

Arps and additional waveforms aren’t worth the difference in price but FXs may be. What is the difference between the FXs in the two? Also since you have experience with both the XS and XF, what’s your feelings on the slowness in the XF vs XS as well?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 15, 2016 @ 11:03 AM
5pinDIN
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bignoface - 15 December 2016 10:21 AM

Arps and additional waveforms aren’t worth the difference in price but FXs may be. What is the difference between the FXs in the two?

Effects in the XS…
See the XS Data List:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/8622

Effects added to the XF with OS 1.50…
See the XF Supplementary Manual:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/53105

 

bignoface -

Also since you have experience with both the XS and XF, what’s your feelings on the slowness in the XF vs XS as well?

I’ve never noticed any significant difference between the two for equivalent normal operations. Display updating could be faster, but that’s true for both models.

Differences I have noticed…
Boot time:
XF with OS 1.50 and two flash modules (1 GB and 512 MB) - 60 seconds
XS with OS 1.60 and 1 GB SDRAM - 36 seconds

Of course, write/erase functions for the XF’s flash modules is slow in comparison to SDRAM in the XS.

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Posted on: December 15, 2016 @ 02:49 PM
meatballfulton
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Writing and erasing the flash is on par with the ES RAM, about 4x slower than the XS/XF sample RAM.

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Posted on: December 19, 2016 @ 10:30 PM
bignoface
Total Posts:  10
Joined  01-31-2016
status: Newcomer

I think I’m going with the XF. Won’t have ti track down ram and the firewire upgrade seems like a more realistic way of tracking things out for the future.

I have one last quick question: Does anyone know if the white XF has a glossy finish like the XS? I would normally prefer the black model but it feels really dry/cheap in comparison to the older Motifs.

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Posted on: December 20, 2016 @ 03:24 AM
music2345
Total Posts:  45
Joined  05-18-2016
status: Regular

I have a white XF 61 key, and the finish is a matte white (no gloss).

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