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Viewing topic "MOX6 - connecting an old Yamaha HC2 organ via MIDI…"

     
Posted on: November 24, 2016 @ 04:49 PM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

I have an old Yamaha HC2 organ which has served me well - and is still going strong! It dates from around 1990, and only has fairly simple MIDI capabilities. The upper manual outputs MIDI data on channel 1, the lower on channel 2 and the pedal board on channel 3....So...I thought I’d try an experiment which has turned out pretty well - except for one thing…

Selecting some of the MOX tone wheel organ voices - which are way better than the original ones - I can now play the organ console using MOX voices. The problem is with the rotary speaker control.
To try things out, I selected an unused pattern location, and selected one voice (Slow Jam) for track one, and another (Left Manual) for track 2. I used the mixer to set the levels of the two voices.
Works very well… but… I can only control the ‘Leslie’ rotor speed of the channel that the MOX has currently selected with the associated track button.
I have the assignable footswitch set to duplicate the mod wheel function, but the attached footswitch only changes the speed of the selected channel. The other unselected channel - (either 1 or 2) retains the last set state (either fast or slow).

I can play both manuals at once just fine, but can only change the rotor speed of the selected channel. How can I get both channels - 1 and 2 - to respond to the footswitch (mod wheel) command?....
Any tips greatly appreciated…

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Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 04:59 AM
5pinDIN
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I presume that you’re playing the HC2’s manuals, but the pedal is connected to the MOX. It should be possible to determine which Parts (not Tracks) respond to a controller by using settings in Mixing Mode. See [F5] RCV SW (Receive Switch) on page 119 of the MOX Reference Manual (http://download.yamaha.com/file/48534), with details on page 69.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 07:08 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

Thanks for your reply..

Yes - I’m using the HC2 keyboards to control the MOX voices - and the foot switch is connected to the MOX

I have checked the Receive Switch status of all parts, and can confirm that all are set ‘on’ for mod wheel (MW). Switching that function on or off allows or inhibits the mod wheel - and the foot switch which is set to duplicate the function - as expected.

However, the function is only actioned if the associated ‘part select’ track button is pressed. The other (unselected) ‘part select’ buttons do not respond to the mod wheel instruction, and retain their ‘last used’ status…

The parts themselves respond to the key inputs fine, and reproduce the selected voices simultaneously..and it’s great to be able to play the organ without the limitation of the 7 note polyphony that the original HC2 had!

As I say, it’s just an experiment - and if I’m honest it actually works better than I thought it would, even if all the functions are not available.

Thanks again for you input. Most grateful.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 08:01 AM
5pinDIN
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rogs - 25 November 2016 07:08 AM

Thanks for your reply..

You’re welcome.

 

rogs -

Yes - I’m using the HC2 keyboards to control the MOX voices - and the foot switch is connected to the MOX

I have checked the Receive Switch status of all parts, and can confirm that all are set ‘on’ for mod wheel (MW). Switching that function on or off allows or inhibits the mod wheel - and the foot switch which is set to duplicate the function - as expected. [...]

Have you tried the Receive Switch settings for FS (Foot Switch), which are separate from the MW settings?

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Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 09:17 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
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status: Pro

Yes - Just for completeness I have all receive switch functions set to ‘on’ for all 4 parts at present. The rotor speed can be controlled by the AF1 switch, the mod wheel itself and of course the assignable foot switch.

In each case the functions perform as they should when the part is selected.
But when using the key inputs from the HC2 on the non selected part, only the note data works. The rotor status will remain as it was last set when the part select switch for that channel was last active....whichever function ‘set it’ (AF1 switch, Mod Wheel or foot switch).

When using the MOX keyboard itself, you will always be ‘playing’ the selected voice in mix mode, so it’s not something one would normally come across.....

As I say, it was worth a shot. Thanks again for your suggestions..

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Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 10:11 AM
5pinDIN
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I’m not ready to give up yet.  :-)

In Pattern (or Song) mode up to three Parts can have Insertion Effects active at any one time. I suspect that you might not have turned them on for the Parts you’re using.

See [F6] EFFECT on page 116 of the MOX Reference Manual, and the details on pages 63-64 - [SF2] INS SW (Insertion Effect Switch) in particular. Verify that Insertion Effects are ON for the relevant Parts, and off for others.

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Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 10:48 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

I had already done that… insertion effects ‘on’ for parts parts 1, 2 and 3....so it’s not that, sadly…

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Posted on: November 25, 2016 @ 04:46 PM
5pinDIN
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rogs - 25 November 2016 10:48 AM

I had already done that… insertion effects ‘on’ for parts parts 1, 2 and 3....so it’s not that, sadly…

It seems I somehow forgot one important factor - CC messages are channel messages, which is why in Pattern mode you have to select the Part in order for the MW (CC#1) or pedal assignment to function.

However, we can work around that, in Master Mode…
Basics are on page 55 of the MOX Owner’s Manual.
Details are in the MOX Reference Manual.
1) Initialize a Master location. See [F1] INIT, Reference Manual page 132.
2) Program the Master to select your Pattern. See [F2] MEMORY on page 129.
3) Turn the Zone Switch on, [F3] ZONE SW, page 129.
4) Set Transmit Channel for Zone 1 to 1 (default), [F1] TRANS, page 130.
5) Turn Internal Switch for Zone 1 on (default), page 130.
6) Set Transmit Channel for Zone 2 to 2, as in #4.
7) Turn Internal Switch for Zone 2 on, as in #5.
8) Verify that Transmit Switch is on for relevant parameters and zones, [F3] TX SW, page 131.
9) STORE the Master

That should do it. You could name the Master if desired, page 130, then STORE again.

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Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 05:36 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

Apologies for the delay in replying - for some reason, I didn’t get a notification of your new post?....

Again, many thanks for these new suggestions. I shall try them out and report back.
It certainly looks as if that should solve the issue....

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Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 07:12 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

... Yes that’s solved it! --although I did miss step 7 at first. That’s the critical one, which allow rotor speed control of the lower keyboard voices (channel 2)

One interesting side effect is that the MOX keyboard now plays all selected channels simultaneously of course… Not a problem - this new master preset is only to allow the HC2 to use MOX voices. And it has certainly never sounded this good before!

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 08:38 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

One step forward, one step back!.....As you can probably tell I’m really not very good at this......

I’m not sure how to transfer the mix settings of the selected pattern into the master mode.... Seems as if it doesn’t transfer the volume levels… I can manually adjust them in the master mode, by adjusting knobs 5 and 6 when the ZoneSwitch setting is on, but I can’t seem to store those changes.

And if I modify the associated pattern setting mix - and store that new mix setting to overwrite the master - it doesn’t seem to accept the new mix level settings..

Obviously something stupid I’m not doing right....(told you I’m not good at this! :-))

EDIT: I have discovered that I can set (and store) each zone volume levels by entering the values from the mix manually using the [F4] PRESET mode.
Whether that is the correct way to do it, I’m not sure?… I’m hoping that the other mix settings from the pattern mix (effect send, etc) are transferred...I’m going to try and modify some of them and see what happens....

Hopefully, its just the volume settings that don’t transfer from the pattern mix automatically?…

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Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 08:44 AM
5pinDIN
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rogs - 26 November 2016 07:12 AM

… Yes that’s solved it! --although I did miss step 7 at first. That’s the critical one, which allow rotor speed control of the lower keyboard voices (channel 2)

Indeed, the zoning ability in Master mode is key to assigning controllers so they can be applied simultaneously to more than one MIDI channel.

 

rogs - 26 November 2016 07:12 AM

One interesting side effect is that the MOX keyboard now plays all selected channels simultaneously of course… Not a problem - this new master preset is only to allow the HC2 to use MOX voices.

True, but considering the goal, I thought that was “not a problem” as well.

 

rogs - 26 November 2016 07:12 AM

And it has certainly never sounded this good before!

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

You’re welcome, again - I’m glad things are working as you like.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 09:50 AM
5pinDIN
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rogs - 26 November 2016 08:38 AM

[...] EDIT: I have discovered that I can set (and store) each zone volume levels by entering the values from the mix manually using the [F4] PRESET mode.
Whether that is the correct way to do it, I’m not sure?…

As you’ve found, with the Zone Switch on, the PRESET Volume settings per Zone are active. Yes, you can edit those to the levels you want - once stored, selecting the Master will set those levels. If the Master Preset levels differ from those in the Pattern Mix, you may find that if you select the Pattern its Part Volume levels will have changed. However, the change isn’t permanent - if a different Pattern is selected, and the initial one is returned to, the Volume levels will be what they were when the Pattern was stored.

 

rogs -

I’m hoping that the other mix settings from the pattern mix (effect send, etc) are transferred...I’m going to try and modify some of them and see what happens....

Hopefully, its just the volume settings that don’t transfer from the pattern mix automatically?…

You shouldn’t have to be concerned about other Parameters from the Pattern Mix being changed.

If you want to delve further into MOX Master Mode, see this support article:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/understanding_master_mode_mox6_mox8

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 10:51 AM
rogs
Total Posts:  121
Joined  07-16-2011
status: Pro

Many thanks - I’ve learned more about Master mode in the last 24 hours than I’ve ever known before!

I shall take look at that link,and see whether my poor old brain can take in any more useful info!…

I have to say that, although I’ve always been keen on Yamaha kit - and all my keyboards are Yamaha - I’ve never been that keen on their control methods. For some people, they’re intuitive I guess .. sadly, not for me.

And I see that Yamaha have decided to change direction themselves, with the introduction of a single mode for their new Montage?

(If that model had a pattern sequencer, I’d buy one straight away!)

Again, thanks for your help…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2016 @ 11:43 AM
5pinDIN
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I don’t know who those people are who find Yamaha user interfaces intuitive, but I never underestimate what a “poor old brain” (including my own) can absorb.  :-)

Having had a Motif XS for several years, and an XF, I can find my way around them fairly well. I don’t have to consult the manuals too often - that’s required more frequently when I’m trying to help with a model I don’t own, due to differences with the interface, and to provide page numbers.

Have fun!

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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