Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Hello. I’m trying to get a sense of a game plan for managing loading & deleting waveforms to my flash boards. I imagine I’ll simply add waveforms, and then begin deleting waveforms when I start to fill up my board. And I’ll only need to format and start from scratch if I end up with more waveforms I want deleted than kept. (Like mistaken duplicates.) 1. Can I load & delete samples from the flash boards without trying to keep waveform collections together?
Consider a flash board that that has had many waveforms loaded & deleted. I suspect the XF adds new waveforms to the first available “data slots”. And so, I’d guess the new waveforms that form a particular multi-waveform voice will have its associated waveforms spread out randomly throughout the flash board.
2. Also, when deleting waveforms from a flash board, is the “data space” reasonably reclaimed? Thank you. |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
The read speed of the flash modules is sufficiently fast so that location of data on it isn’t an issue.
After significant deletion, using the Optimize function is advisable.
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dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Great. Thanks for pointing out the Optimize function! Is that kind of like windows defragmenter, rearranging files to contiguous storage locations? |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
You’re welcome.
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According to the manual…
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meatballfulton
Total Posts: 3022
Joined 01-25-2005 status: Guru |
My way of working with flash may seem weird to some, but it keeps all the samples for all the libraries in the flash. What I rearrange are the voices in the user banks. My method is as follows:
1. Format the flash
Now I have a number of All files, each one with the voices, arpeggios and performances that go with a particular library but also all the samples from every library that was loaded before. Those voices point to the proper waveforms. The final All file also includes a full backup of the flash contents. I can then go into any All file and load any voice into any user bank location and it will play. This can all be done with just the XF and some USB or network storage. Because of the way the XF deals with performances and arpeggios, keeping them in sync with the library voices is still complicated. The Melas tools can really help here. Even if you never need to edit a sample, the Waveform Editor lets you organize arpeggios and of course the Performance Editor can be used to manage Performances. To me, it’s important to keep every sample in flash all the time is critical because adding a wavefrom back after it has been deleted is messy. If the waveforms never move, it really simplifies things. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Excellent. Thank you! I am very interested in flashboard workflows as I’m new to them.
What is the value of making an ALL file after loading each library? (I didn’t understand it when I read the Motifator flash session support article either.)
I get it. Okay, I think I get it.
If you make an ALL file after loading each & every library, then, and only then - once done loading all libraries - can you browse your usb/network storage, and select the unique ALL file corresponding to a unique library, and you can browse and recall any voice. And it’s quick because all the waveforms are on the flash boards. And all the unique libraries (aka, unique ALL files) can be in one place, next to each other.
Conversely, this ability to fairly thoughtlessly browse & select any voice from any library wouldn’t be available without having saved the ALL file after the loading of each & every library.
...
I’ve already added a few libraries, and I stopped making ALL files after each one because I was in a rush. (Rushing is always good!) … I have the hunch, that for those libraries that I did not make a unique ALL file, I can reload just the voice bank, without the samples, and then create the ALL file; and I could get on track with your approach. Is that right?
I haven’t dealt much with performances, arpeggios, or Melas tools yet. So, I may resurrect this when I get there. But, I’ll try to remember “when performance/arpeggio management, then Melas tools.” |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
Not to put too fine a point on it, but once you have your Sample data installed on your Flash Board, you do not want to continue to LOAD ALL files that contain Sample data “without the samples” (specifically, without sample is the option I am referring to), as literally stated. Even though LOADING “without sample” each time would not re-LOAD the audio data, it would inadvertently re-LOAD the waveform data, in duplicate, triplicate, and so on. Your board would begin to fill up with unnecessary duplicate data. Rather than repeat the entire explanation here, you will probably find This Thread useful. |
meatballfulton
Total Posts: 3022
Joined 01-25-2005 status: Guru |
Let’s assume each library has exactly 64 samples. You load library #1, the samples go into locations 1-64. You load library #2, the samples go into locations 65-128. And so on. This is the most important thing to understand about loading libraries...the samples end up in the flash in the first available spot, which will be after the last sample from the last library you had loaded. The XF makes the translation of the pointers from the voice to the samples for you automatically. Saved All file #1 has samples 1-64 voices use samples 1-64 Saved All file #2 has samples 1-128 voices use samples 65-128 Saved All file #3 has samples 1-192 voices use samples 129-192 Saved All file #4 has samples 1-256 voices use samples 193-256 Saved All file #5 has samples 1-320 voices use samples 257-320 With all 320 samples now in the flash, if you load a voice from any saved All file, the connection between any voice and the sample(s) it uses is still correct. PS you could save the All files without samples as long as after you are done you save one additional All file with samples as a backup for the flash contents. EDIT: when I wrote samples that means waveforms in Yamaha speak. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
thank you, all. will process & you know i’ll be back if i still have questions. :) great forum. great board. great participants. grateful. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Ok, I get this. Thanks for this link. It’s got depth. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Consider a scenario where I’ve …
Is there a way I could load just the Voices of Library One, the whole bank at a time, into a User bank on the XF, without
Based on what I’ve tried, I will assume the answer is no. I like meatballfulton’s suggestion of making archived ALL files after loading each library. I will start over doing it that way. I am asking this question to try to get a better handle flash file management.
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However, when I attempted to do step 2 above, when loading, I was limited to either loading the samples into my USR (SDRAM), or onto FL1 or FL2. I tired both.
Thank you. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
By the way, I definitely will format my FL1, and begin again following the two flash articles here on motifator. And not in a rush. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
For myself & others: I believe the answer to my issue lies in this excerpt from the main flash article here on motifator: “When you start to create your own customized Waveform and Sample setups on your FLASH Board(s) make sure you make a full backup of your customized Library. That is, SAVE as an ALL data file “with samplesâ€. Keep that as an archive file. And anytime you change your Flash board installed Waveforms and Samples, make sure you create a new archive file.” Though, I am not sure I fully grasp why. Although, I think it’s related to ...
From the Flashboard Session article:
And a good reminder:
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5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
In reading your post, I get the impression that you may have missed the purpose of using the Load option “None”. Since that option wasn’t available with the original XF OS, it’s not covered in the Reference Manual - the “None” loading option was introduced with OS version 1.10. See Additional option in file loading operation on page 16 of the XF Supplementary Manual (http://download.yamaha.com/file/53105). Although you hadn’t saved “All” files as you added library data to FL1, it still should have been possible to load the “Library One” Voices and have them point to the correct Samples/Waveforms. (That would not be true for the remainder of the libraries.) Loading to FL1 using option “None” should have worked in your “Library One” scenario. By the way, since when new or after a factory reset the XF Voice Bank User 1 contains unique Voices (ones not found in the Preset banks), you might want to load libraries to a bank other than User 1. |
meatballfulton
Total Posts: 3022
Joined 01-25-2005 status: Guru |
Every library expects to load it’s waveforms starting at the very first location in memory, whether RAM or flash. When loading to flash, the XF automatically loads the waveforms to the first available location, which if you have loaded other waveforms previously will not be the very first location. It then adjusts the pointers in the voices to point to the adjusted waveform locations. Now if you do not save an All file at this point, when you want to reload the voices from the original library file the pointers will point to the wrong waveforms (or worse no waveforms at all). Saving the All files is the only way to get a copy of the adjusted pointers. |
dsetto
Total Posts: 434
Joined 01-24-2014 status: Enthusiast |
Thanks, 5pin. I made a mistake in my presented example. What I called “Library One” arbitrarily, was actually “Library Two”. And yet, I still learned valuable information from your response. The crucial point I take from yours & meatballfulton’s response is that one cannot load just Voices (sans waveforms & Samples) from the vendor’s orginal library file and expect them to properly point to previously loaded waveforms & samples - when the loaded waveforms don’t occupy the first contiguous slots on the board.
And thanks to this discussion, I’ll take what I thought a suggestion as necessity:
Saving the All files is the only way to get a copy of the adjusted pointers. Thank you, all. |