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Viewing topic "Editing Control Set Values in S90XS - how?"

     
Posted on: October 16, 2016 @ 09:06 AM
wp54
Total Posts:  21
Joined  01-27-2014
status: Regular

Ok so I have started to have a more ordered approach to tweaking the parameters of the piano voices (on my S70XS), using the article in “Learning to Customise Piano voices” as found here http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/learning_to_customize_piano_voices_to_your_playing_style

I realise this guide was written for a Motif XS not S70/90 XS but I don’t think that makes any difference, the same functions are present on the S70/90 XS

So I am stuck on the “Control Set” setting part. Question is:-

- In the exercise in the above article, the Cutoff value in the Control Set is adjusted to suit your playing style. The value of AS1 is set at +4 in the supplied test voice and the idea is to adjust it up and down to see the effect.
- Only – there is NO EFFECT on the sound of the voice at any value -64 or +63
- But if I use the knob “Assign 1” on the main part of the keyboard, this DOES have an effect – and also is labelled “cutoff”
o However it seems to be a different thing as it has a starting value of 0 not 4

So I am at a loss to understand what is going on here – any clues?

pics attached

Thankyou!

Image Attachments
Control set.jpgAssign knob.jpgAssign knob value.jpg
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Posted on: October 16, 2016 @ 04:42 PM
5pinDIN
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Total Posts:  8954
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
wp54 - 16 October 2016 09:06 AM

[...]

So I am stuck on the “Control Set” setting part. Question is:-

- In the exercise in the above article, the Cutoff value in the Control Set is adjusted to suit your playing style. The value of AS1 is set at +4 in the supplied test voice and the idea is to adjust it up and down to see the effect.
- Only – there is NO EFFECT on the sound of the voice at any value -64 or +63

You’re just supposed to adjust the AS1(ASSIGN 1) knob position, but it seems that you’re changing the value of the AS1 Depth parameter (please correct me if that’s not accurate). When the AS1 knob is at the center of its rotation (12 o’clock position), changing the Depth value won’t have any effect. For a dramatic demonstration of what the Depth setting does, set the AS1 knob either fully CCW or CW, and then change Depth through its -64 to +63 range.

 

wp54 -

- But if I use the knob “Assign 1” on the main part of the keyboard, this DOES have an effect – and also is labelled “cutoff”
o However it seems to be a different thing as it has a starting value of 0 not 4[...]

The ASSIGN 1 knob is functioning as expected, but I’m confused by ‘and also is labelled “cutoff”’. Did you mean to say that there’s another knob, labeled “cutoff”? That would, of course, be true. Bad_Mister apparently chose to assign a knob to the cutoff function so that he could set a particular Depth.

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Posted on: October 17, 2016 @ 06:35 AM
wp54
Total Posts:  21
Joined  01-27-2014
status: Regular

Thankyou - it is absolutely as you say.

I had thought that the intent WAS to experiment with the depth value.....

As I understand it now, the AS1 level and the depth value work together - indeed I can now see that the depth value only has an effect if the AS1 is set at extreme ends.

Interestingly, despite the fact that the depth value does affect the sound (depending on where AS1 ends up), it is just set at +4 and there is no reference to experimenting with the value in this article

So...clearly it is meant to be left alone - do you know why +4 could have been chosen for the depth value in this case?

ie - I’m wondering what is “Depth”?
In a general sense, does it determine the sensitivity of response of the given filter to the value of the controller, in this case “cutoff” and “AS1”?

I have noticed for the stock S6 voice, the depth value of the cutoff filter is +3.
(and....here it is assigned to the Ribbon controller.... but I don’t think there is one on the S90Xs?)

Thanks again…

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Posted on: October 17, 2016 @ 10:38 AM
5pinDIN
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wp54 - 17 October 2016 06:35 AM

Thankyou - it is absolutely as you say.

I had thought that the intent WAS to experiment with the depth value.....

As I understand it now, the AS1 level and the depth value work together - indeed I can now see that the depth value only has an effect if the AS1 is set at extreme ends.

The Depth value has an effect at any position of the AS1 knob other than when it’s centered, but it’s most obvious at the ends of rotation (which is why I mentioned fully CCW and CW).

 

wp54 -

Interestingly, despite the fact that the depth value does affect the sound (depending on where AS1 ends up), it is just set at +4 and there is no reference to experimenting with the value in this article

So...clearly it is meant to be left alone - do you know why +4 could have been chosen for the depth value in this case?

Apparently +4 provided the desired range of cutoff when the AS1 control was turned from end to end. You could certainly change the Depth setting if more or less range better suits your needs.

 

wp54 -

ie - I’m wondering what is “Depth”?
In a general sense, does it determine the sensitivity of response of the given filter to the value of the controller, in this case “cutoff” and “AS1”?

Depth determines how much effect the “Source” controller has over the “Destination” - it’s the amount/degree of control.

 

wp54 -

I have noticed for the stock S6 voice, the depth value of the cutoff filter is +3.
(and....here it is assigned to the Ribbon controller.... but I don’t think there is one on the S90Xs?)

For many Parameters, a relatively low Depth setting is sufficient, and in some cases a high value setting will result in a range that has no practical use if the knob is turned much to either side of center. Experimentation will soon reveal what works and what doesn’t.

The Motif XS has a ribbon controller (as does the XF). Apparently Voice programming isn’t changed for the S70XS/S90XS models.

 

wp54 -

Thanks again…

You’re welcome.

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Posted on: October 17, 2016 @ 02:06 PM
wp54
Total Posts:  21
Joined  01-27-2014
status: Regular

Yep - all makes perfect sense...now at least!

Strange thing about the Ribbon controller for Cutoff on the S6 voice… since that voice is exclusively for the S90/70 not Motif (I think).

ie you would not expect the (absent) ribbon controller to be referenced on a S90-only voice.

However, it doesn’t matter as I can just assign Cutoff to s different controller.

So now to work on tweaking!

Thanks again for your help, it is very much appreciated.

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