mySoftware [Updates]

Once you create a user profile on Motifator and update with the appropriate information, the updates shown here will be specific to you.

rssFeeds [Syndicate]


forumforum
 

Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.

Viewing topic "S90SX - Midi problem with Ketron SD4 Sound Module"

     
Posted on: September 30, 2016 @ 11:34 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer

I have an S90XS on which I want to use the midi out to control a Ketron SD4 sound module, it should just plug in and work but it doesn’t.
When I first bought the Ketron (several years ago) I couldn’t get it to work properly with the S90, the first note plays as if the sustain pedal were depressed and no other notes would sound until the first note had decayed. The Ketron worked as expected when tested with my Novation midi controller keyboard. I checked that the midi send and recieve channels (channel 1) were correct on both instruments but could not get it to work properly so I called Yamaha support. After some time the support guy came up with the problem which I am sure had something to do with the Ketron requiring a ‘Note Off’ command and the Yamaha not sending one. I had to make a setting adjustment in the Utility menu on the S90 and then it worked perfectly, problem is I cannot remember what the setting adjustment was and I am sure I had to make the adjustment every time I started up.

After 3 years of not usiing the Ketron I now need to use it again but am faced with the same problem as before, I tried it on my Korg PA4X and it worked perfectly with no setting adjustments, plugged it in and it just worked. I called Yamaha support but after some deliberation they were unable to help me this time and could not find a solution saying that it should just work and that it couldn’t be a note off problem and that if I had made a setting adjustment it should still be there but that is just not the case. It was almost as if they didn’t believe that the problem was solved before by one of the support staff.

I am fairly certain I have seen mention elsewhere of midi problems with Yamaha keyboards when used with other manufacturers devices but there must be a solution. I would be most grateful for and advice on how to overcome this, I know there is a solution as it worked before, if only I had written down the adjustments I had to make but my memory has failed me.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: September 30, 2016 @ 06:14 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru

Welcome to the forum.

A Note-On message is of the form 9n kk vv
where…
n = MIDI Channel, 0~F (1~16)
kk = key number, 01~7F (1~127)
vv = velocity, 01~7F (1~127)

Note-Off is of two possible forms, 8n kk vv or 9n kk 00.
The second one is like Note-On, but with velocity zero. The S90XS sends the latter type of Note-Off, other keyboards might do the same or use the former type.

I looked at the SD4 MIDI implementation in the manual, and it appears that it should respond to either type of Note-Off message. It could be interesting to see which message the Pa4X sends. Do you have a way of monitoring what your keyboards are sending when you strike and release a key? If so, I’d suggest comparing what the Korg and Yamaha send.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 01, 2016 @ 12:13 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer

Hi SpinDIN,

Thanks for taking the trouble to look into this frustrating problem for me, unfortunately I’m a bit lacking in the midi department.

I understand your note on/off explaination but I don’t have any means of monitoring which form the PA4X sends and I don’t actually have it with me at the moment as it had to go back, I am expecting a replacement in about a week. In the meantime I will try to find out which form the ‘note off’ takes.

The annoying thing is we resolved this problem once before but I can’t for the life of me remember how.

Thanks again, appreciate your comrehensive reply.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 01, 2016 @ 03:16 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru

You’re welcome. Perhaps asking Ketron about the problem, or bringing it up in another forum, might lead to a resolution.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JwSrwJbk030J:http://www.ketronusa.com/news.asp

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 01, 2016 @ 06:45 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer

I already tried another Yamaha forum and got not reply at all. I will try the Ketron but I know it’s a problem with the S90XS as I experienced it before and Yamaha Support came up with an answer which was a setting adjustment, Support staff have probably changed now and couldn’t help me.
Thanks for your help anyway.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 01, 2016 @ 07:59 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru

How are the S90XS and SD4 connected - anything more than S90XS MIDI-Out to SD4 MIDI-In?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 02, 2016 @ 12:54 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 01 October 2016 07:59 AM

How are the S90XS and SD4 connected - anything more than S90XS MIDI-Out to SD4 MIDI-In?

No, exactly that simple connection.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 02, 2016 @ 04:00 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
stilli - 02 October 2016 12:54 AM
5pinDIN - 01 October 2016 07:59 AM

How are the S90XS and SD4 connected - anything more than S90XS MIDI-Out to SD4 MIDI-In?

No, exactly that simple connection.

OK - I just wanted to verify that no MIDI loop could exist, since the SD4 has a MIDI-Out port and THRU capability.

Are any pedals connected to the S90SX (sustain or otherwise)? If so, try disconnecting them.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 02, 2016 @ 10:37 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 02 October 2016 04:00 AM

.................
OK - I just wanted to verify that no MIDI loop could exist, since the SD4 has a MIDI-Out port and THRU capability.

Are any pedals connected to the S90SX (sustain or otherwise)? If so, try disconnecting them.

Yes I have a sustain pedal (FC3) connected to the S90XS, removing it made no difference but if I depress the pedal each time a key is pressed the note plays immediately, still with sustain. I can get to a point by partially depressing the pedal where the notes will play with sustain but it’s a very fine point on the pedal scale and difficult to maintain so we must be on the right track.

I tried changing the settings for the Sustain pedal in the Utility settings but it made no difference, the pedal is currently set to Half On.

The only information I could find on the Korg PA4X is:

MIDI commands
0x80 Note Off
0x90 Note On
0xA0 Aftertouch
0xB0 Continuous controller
0xC0 Patch change
0xD0 Channel Pressure
0xE0 Pitch bend
0xF0 (non-musical commands

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 02, 2016 @ 11:16 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru

Given that the Pa4X works with the SD4, and that it uses the 8n (0x80 status byte) type of Note-Off, I’d suggest contacting Ketron and asking them specifically what the SD4 requires for Note-Off. I’d supply them with the serial number of your unit, since sometimes that sort of thing might change with production date.

Once you have that information, it might help determine what can be done to resolve your problem.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 02, 2016 @ 11:38 AM
stilli
Total Posts:  6
Joined  03-19-2010
status: Newcomer

Thanks again for your help.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


Previous Topic:

‹‹ S90 ES firmware update error
Next Topic:

    Editing Control Set Values in S90XS - how? ››