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Viewing topic "MOXF and loading .X3A “With System” confusion!"

     
Posted on: May 03, 2016 @ 03:17 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced

First post here but been lurking for a while.

I recently acquired an MOXF8 and looking to get a flash expansion board very soon. I have been watching the excellent MOXF In ‘N’ Out video tutorial. But I am confused about the “With System” setting when loading a .X3A file into the MOXF8.

At 54:39 Dave Polich shows he is about to load an .X3A file into an MOXF and has the “With System” checkbox enabled. He comments that this is a good thing.

I’m confused though!

Surely, if loading an .X3A file into an MOXF, you would NOT want to have the “With System” checkbox enabled?

Will this not load system utility settings for a Motif, that might be different to an MOXF?

Or will it just overwrite any edited MOXF Utility settings (if different to factory settings) and restore them to the factory default settings?

I am very confused by this!

I have been viewing numerous sound libraries that use new waveforms and samples (CP1, Inspiration In A Flash, etc) with the excellent Johns Melas Tools. When I have the flash board, I will use the Melas Waveform Editor to create a library to import into the MOXF8 as a .X3A file (the program does not currently allow files to be saved in MOXF.X6A format).

Everything I have read thus far suggests that you only use “With System” if you want to restore the Utility settings to how they were configured when the last backup (to USB flash drive) was made.

So...for example....

I load an .X3A file ("With System” disabled because I have made some Utility setting changes on the MOXF8 that differ from the factory defaults).

Once everything is loaded, I then perform a Save All backup to USB flash drive, that saves as an .X6A file. If I then make changes to the Utility settings, I should make another .X6A backup “With System” for restore purposes.

Am I making sense?

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Posted on: May 03, 2016 @ 04:27 AM
meatballfulton
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In most cases you never want to load With System. Certainly not when you are loading voice libraries! That will overwrite your settings, usually back to the factory settings.

I load an .X3A file ("With System” disabled because I have made some Utility setting changes on the MOXF8 that differ from the factory defaults).

Once everything is loaded, I then perform a Save All backup to USB flash drive, that saves as an .X6A file. If I then make changes to the Utility settings, I should make another .X6A backup for restore “With System” purposes.

That is correct. The idea is to back up your settings so you can restore them if needed. Any time you make permanent changes to your system settings, you should back up again.

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Posted on: May 03, 2016 @ 04:37 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced
meatballfulton - 03 May 2016 04:27 AM

In most cases you never want to load With System. Certainly not when you are loading voice libraries! That will overwrite your settings, usually back to the factory settings.

I load an .X3A file ("With System” disabled because I have made some Utility setting changes on the MOXF8 that differ from the factory defaults).

Once everything is loaded, I then perform a Save All backup to USB flash drive, that saves as an .X6A file. If I then make changes to the Utility settings, I should make another .X6A backup “With System” for restore purposes.

That is correct. The idea is to back up your settings so you can restore them if needed. Any time you make permanent changes to your system settings, you should back up again.

That’s great, thank you. All makes sense now! I was just confused by what is shown and said in the MOXF In ‘N’ Out video tutorial when a .X3A voice library is loaded for the first time!

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Posted on: May 03, 2016 @ 04:58 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced

Just one other thing I’m a little confused about, when loading .X6A files in - specifically from a backup saved to a USB flash drive.

In that scenario do I load without the waveforms? Presumably I do not load them (which automatically means no samples are loaded, I think) as the waveforms and samples are already on the flash expansion board?

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Posted on: May 03, 2016 @ 09:31 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  2988
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
moxfman - 03 May 2016 04:58 AM

Just one other thing I’m a little confused about, when loading .X6A files in - specifically from a backup saved to a USB flash drive.

In that scenario do I load without the waveforms? Presumably I do not load them (which automatically means no samples are loaded, I think) as the waveforms and samples are already on the flash expansion board?

Yes, you have correctly presumed that you don’t want to keep LOADING duplicate waveforms from your SAVED file to the Flash Board.

You may find This Document useful.

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Posted on: May 04, 2016 @ 04:15 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced
cmayhle - 03 May 2016 09:31 AM

Yes, you have correctly presumed that you don’t want to keep LOADING duplicate waveforms from your SAVED file to the Flash Board.

You may find This Document useful.

Thanks. That’s certainly a very useful document!

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Posted on: July 23, 2016 @ 07:12 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced

So...where I’m also a bit confused...and I can’t check this at the moment.

If I load an .X6A ALL file made from the MOXF, any changes I’d made to user voices, performances, songs etc since the backup was made will be overwritten, that bit I get.

But if go online, buy and download a sound library that contains ONLY Voices in an ALL file (.X3A or .X6A) and then load into my MOXF8, does it over-write any other user voices, etc, in addition to the user voices?

So, performances, master, songs, patterns, etc? Are those affected or not in that scenario? I think the answer is no, but I’m going somewhat crazy trying to get my head around all this stuff!

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Posted on: July 23, 2016 @ 07:25 AM
5pinDIN
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moxfman - 23 July 2016 07:12 AM

[...]If I load an .X6A ALL file made from the MOXF, any changes I’d made to user voices, performances, songs etc since the backup was made will be overwritten, that bit I get.

True.

 

moxfman -

But if go online, buy and download a sound library that contains ONLY Voices in an ALL file (.X3A or .X6A) and then load into my MOXF8, does it over-write any other user voices, etc, in addition to the user voices?

So, performances, master, songs, patterns, etc? Are those affected or not in that scenario? I think the answer is no, but I’m going somewhat crazy trying to get my head around all this stuff!

Any “All” file contains all User data, and will overwrite all of it (Voices, Performances, Masters, Songs/Patterns, etc.) if the file is loaded in entirety. An “All Voice” file (XF .X3V or MOXF .X6V) will contain only Voice data, and won’t overwrite Performances, etc.

Data can be selectively loaded from an “All” file - you can choose particular Voices, a bank of them, etc., if you don’t want to overwrite other User data.

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Posted on: July 23, 2016 @ 07:34 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced
5pinDIN - 23 July 2016 07:25 AM
moxfman - 23 July 2016 07:12 AM

[...]If I load an .X6A ALL file made from the MOXF, any changes I’d made to user voices, performances, songs etc since the backup was made will be overwritten, that bit I get.

True.

 

moxfman -

But if go online, buy and download a sound library that contains ONLY Voices in an ALL file (.X3A or .X6A) and then load into my MOXF8, does it over-write any other user voices, etc, in addition to the user voices?

So, performances, master, songs, patterns, etc? Are those affected or not in that scenario? I think the answer is no, but I’m going somewhat crazy trying to get my head around all this stuff!

Any “All” file contains all User data, and will overwrite all of it (Voices, Performances, Masters, Songs/Patterns, etc.) if the file is loaded in entirety. An “All Voice” file (XF .X3V or MOXF .X6V) will contain only Voice data, and won’t overwrite Performances, etc.

Data can be selectively loaded from an “All” file - you can choose particular Voices, a bank of them, etc., if you don’t want to overwrite other User data.

Thanks for the clarification 5pinDIN!

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Posted on: July 23, 2016 @ 07:40 AM
5pinDIN
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moxfman - 23 July 2016 07:34 AM

Thanks for the clarification 5pinDIN!

You’re welcome. If you have a question about a specific file loading issue, just ask.

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Posted on: July 24, 2016 @ 11:42 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced
5pinDIN - 23 July 2016 07:40 AM
moxfman - 23 July 2016 07:34 AM

Thanks for the clarification 5pinDIN!

You’re welcome. If you have a question about a specific file loading issue, just ask.

Well yeah...here’s another one!

I created a .X3V file in the Melas Waveform Editor and loaded it into my MOXF8 earlier today, when I took the synth to a rehearsal studio to audition some new sounds. Space issues at home is an issue right now!

The sounds included some arpeggios. But they didn’t function correctly or at all.

So how do I get the arp sounds in? Do I have to load .X3A or .X6A files instead? I’m confused because with the arps taken from sound libraries used to create the .X3V file (Melas cannot save as .X6V) there is no separate arp file - with the exception of the arp file included in the DCP Vintage Keys sound library.

I thought I’d got my head around all this....but then I’ll try something and think, why did THAT happen?!

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Posted on: July 24, 2016 @ 05:22 PM
5pinDIN
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status: Guru
moxfman - 24 July 2016 11:42 AM

[...] I created a .X3V file in the Melas Waveform Editor and loaded it into my MOXF8 earlier today, when I took the synth to a rehearsal studio to audition some new sounds. Space issues at home is an issue right now!

The sounds included some arpeggios. But they didn’t function correctly or at all.

So how do I get the arp sounds in? Do I have to load .X3A or .X6A files instead?[...]

Arps can be loaded from “All” or “All Arpeggio” (.X3G, .X6G) files, but aren’t in “All Voice” files. Although I don’t use Melas software, I believe the Waveform Editor can create an “All Arpeggio” file, which could be loaded in addition to the “All Voice” one.

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Posted on: August 04, 2016 @ 08:52 AM
moxfman
Total Posts:  80
Joined  03-13-2016
status: Experienced
5pinDIN - 24 July 2016 05:22 PM

Arps can be loaded from “All” or “All Arpeggio” (.X3G, .X6G) files, but aren’t in “All Voice” files. Although I don’t use Melas software, I believe the Waveform Editor can create an “All Arpeggio” file, which could be loaded in addition to the “All Voice” one.

Yes the Melas Waveform Editor can work with arpeggios but I haven’t figured out how yet. I think you have to save “All Arpeggio” files off the MOXF then import them into the Waveform Editor that way.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 02, 2016 @ 02:55 AM
B.Minor
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Yes the Melas Waveform Editor can work with arpeggios but I haven’t figured out how yet. I think you have to save “All Arpeggio” files off the MOXF then import them into the Waveform Editor that way.

It’s true that Waveform Editor can open, create and save X3G and X0G Arpeggio files, however, it cannot open, create and save any X6G Arpeggio files, as transformation into any MOXF-native format is not supported (and probably never will be). But what the application can do is to “import” some MOXF format files instead, but unfortunately that doesn’t apply to Arpeggios, as currently there is a big limitation for such “imports”. MOXF Arpeggios seem to be structured differently from those found in the XS or XF models, and their interchangeability with other Motif-based models is not fully explored yet. In any case Waveform Editor will *NOT* import any MOXF Arpeggios, neither if they are “embedded” within an X6A file, nor if they are separately available as an X6G file. The application simply cannot handle them and will ignore them by default, just by leaving the related Arpeggio window empty after any MOXF file import, even if there were some Arprggios included.

In fact, in Waveform Editor you always have to open any Arpeggios using their native and supported X3G or X0G file formats, or - if embedded - by opening related X3A or X0A files. There is currently no way around that. I contacted John Melas about his future plans, but it seems that this will remain to be one of the gaps MOXF users will have to live with.

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Posted on: June 27, 2017 @ 05:42 AM
meatballfulton
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Arpeggio management was poorly implemented in the original Motif and has stayed that way through all the following models. Even when using the Melas Waveform Editor with the XF management of arpeggios is painful.

It simply is what it is.

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