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Viewing topic "Motif XS coarse problem"

   
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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 06:00 AM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

Hi!

When I try to coarse (tune) the voice element to lower range (for exapmle I want clarinet in range C4-C5 and coarse -12 to sound the same in range C2-C3, so I set coarse on +12 and range on C2-C3), it doesn’t sound the same. It sounds thinner in lower range. How to solve this problem?

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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 09:31 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3090
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

If you Coarse Tune VOICE Elements [VOICE Element Edit] too far, you change the tonal color significantly.

Try using Note Shift [VOICE Common Edit] instead.

See Bad_Mister’s post in This Thread.

If you would like to Note Shift any given PART in PERFORMANCE, SONG, or PATTERN Modes, you can do that without the need to create and STORE a new pitch-shifted VOICE variant.

See Bad_Mister’s post in This Thread.

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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 01:11 PM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

Thank you on your answer. It is the same situation in Performance mode, with Note Shift. The voice changes its color. Is it possible to make tunned voice or performance without changing the color and store it?

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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 01:25 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3090
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

Perhaps I am not clear on what you are trying to do.  Are you trying to set the pitch of the clarinet so it is being played out of it’s natural range?

If so, you cannot shift the pitch of an instrument very far from its natural (i.e. sampled) range without an audible change to the color of the tone.

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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 02:59 PM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

I am trying to set the pitch of voice element (or voice part in performance) in lower range, in order to sound like in its natural (upper) range, but it sounds thinner in lower range…

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Posted on: April 16, 2016 @ 03:51 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3090
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

Coarse Tune actually affects the oscillator, which actually affects the sampled tone.  It will not sound right if you go very far away from the original pitch as sampled.

Note Shift, on the other hand, is a simple transpose function.  It places the “sweet spot” of the VOICE(PART) into a different physical range of the keyboard.

That’s all it does.

It allows you to play the clarinet [up to] two octaves lower or higher...on the actual keys themselves, NOT in pitch...than is set up initially for that VOICE.

This does not mean you are able to “stretch” the playable range of the native instrument...clarinet for purposes of this discussion...any further.  It simply means that the usable range of the instrument will be able to be shifted, or assigned, to a lower or higher physical area of keys.

If you are using Note Shift, and find the VOICE is “thinner in the lower range”, than you are playing that VOICE lower in pitch than it’s natural playable range. Note Shift simply transposes the VOICE to a different area of the physical keys.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 01:57 AM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

Thank you, I will try some tricks with Note Shift today.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 03:03 AM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

I tried to Note Shift the voice. It has the same effect on particular sound: it sounds thinner in lower range of the keyboard. The situation is the same either in Voice or Performance mode. I suppose it is impossible to place voice in lower range without changing the color of sound…

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 10:18 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3090
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
dekiciric - 17 April 2016 03:03 AM

I tried to Note Shift the voice. It has the same effect on particular sound: it sounds thinner in lower range of the keyboard. The situation is the same either in Voice or Performance mode. I suppose it is impossible to place voice in lower range without changing the color of sound…

dekiciric, could you please post the VOICE(S) you say is behaving this way when using Note Shift?

I would like to test this for myself, but will not have access to my XF until later this week.

I have not experienced this result with VOICES to which I have applied Note Shift.

In the mean time, I would invite others here to test this...once we have identified the VOICE(S) that dekiciric says is altered by Note Shift...so we can determine if this function actually changes its tone and/or timbre, in addition to just shifting the playing range on the keyboard.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 11:13 AM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

Every factory voice is behaving as I wrote. I tested them with Coarse, Note Shift, Octave and Transpose functions, even in Utility and result is the same: the voice is not just changing the pitch, but also it sounds different. I am not sure about samples, but factory voices are changing their colors for sure.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 12:03 PM
stoneb3
Total Posts:  841
Joined  06-05-2011
status: Guru
cmayhle - 17 April 2016 10:18 AM


dekiciric, could you please post the VOICE(S) you say is behaving this way when using Note Shift?

In the mean time, I would invite others here to test this…

I’ve found 3 Solo Clarinets in the XS:

PRE 5 B07 Clarinet 1 AF1
PRE 5 B08 Jazzy Clarinet Legato
GM E08 Clarinet 2

I Initialized a performance and placed GM E08 in Part one with it’s key range set as described, C4-C5 with the Note Shift set to -12. I applied the same voice to Part two, assigning key range to C2-C3 with Note Shift set to + 12. Both parts sounded identical. I copied this Performance to 2 more locations substituting the remaining 2 Voices with the results being the same. Have I miss-interpreted the situation?

Stone

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 01:23 PM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular
stoneb3 - 17 April 2016 12:03 PM
cmayhle - 17 April 2016 10:18 AM


dekiciric, could you please post the VOICE(S) you say is behaving this way when using Note Shift?

In the mean time, I would invite others here to test this…

I’ve found 3 Solo Clarinets in the XS:

PRE 5 B07 Clarinet 1 AF1
PRE 5 B08 Jazzy Clarinet Legato
GM E08 Clarinet 2

I Initialized a performance and placed GM E08 in Part one with it’s key range set as described, C4-C5 with the Note Shift set to -12. I applied the same voice to Part two, assigning key range to C2-C3 with Note Shift set to + 12. Both parts sounded identical. I copied this Performance to 2 more locations substituting the remaining 2 Voices with the results being the same. Have I miss-interpreted the situation?

Stone

Hm...when I do that, not just with clarinets, but also the other voices, they don’t sound the same..and not only in Performance mode, but in Voice mode too, when I change pitch in some way.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 01:31 PM
stoneb3
Total Posts:  841
Joined  06-05-2011
status: Guru
dekiciric - 17 April 2016 01:23 PM

Hm...when I do that, not just with clarinets, but also the other voices, they don’t sound the same..and not only in Performance mode, but in Voice mode too, when I change pitch in some way.

Are you initializing the performance first?

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 02:27 PM
dekiciric
Total Posts:  11
Joined  09-13-2014
status: Regular

Are you initializing the performance first?

Yes. Always. Try Note Shift on some voice with optimal sound in range C4-C5, from -12 to +24 in range C1-C2 (suppose it is some Arabian string sound, built from few octave down and up ROM elements). It sounds thinner in lower range.

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 03:39 PM
stoneb3
Total Posts:  841
Joined  06-05-2011
status: Guru

Ah yes, as pointed out by cmayhle some voices will not sound well when transposed out of their natural range. At the upper end this is called munchkinism and since I’m not aware of a description at the lower end, I’ll refer to it as mayhleism. You may need to select Voices that are more appropriate for their intended use. For instance, had the Clarinets not performed as desired I would have suggested obtaining some Bass Clarinet samples. Arabic stringed instruments having a higher natural pitch would likely fall into the category of sounding like mayhleism when set too low. I’ll check it later but would be confident that is the case.

Stone

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Posted on: April 17, 2016 @ 04:06 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3090
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
dekiciric - 17 April 2016 02:27 PM

...Try Note Shift on some voice with optimal sound in range C4-C5, from -12 to +24 in range C1-C2 (suppose it is some Arabian string sound, built from few octave down and up ROM elements). It sounds thinner in lower range.

Whatever VOICE you choose to Note Shift, BEFORE you Note Shift it, try the VOICE out and determine the most natural and pleasing note range for that sound.  On some instrument emulations, this may be only an octave or two.

Now, when you Note Shift that VOICE +12 semitones, for example, the new SHIFTED VOICE “natural range” will be played an octave lower on the keyboard.

It will sound the same, played an octave lower than before, but won’t have any larger “natural range”...that range will simply be found an octave lower on the keybed...and the tone should be identical.

If this is not the case with your machine, there may be something that requires service.

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