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Viewing topic "Amplification Revisited"

   
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Posted on: February 15, 2016 @ 03:15 PM
motidave
Total Posts:  426
Joined  10-03-2010
status: Enthusiast

jmho, as AP seems to be your distinguisher for the stereo discussion, APs sound warmer and richer in DXR10s than K10s.  K10s seem to have an upper-mid/lower-high freq up-notch that sounds shrill to me.  DXRs seem more even across the frequency spectrum.  now, if you’re taking time to dial in a 30-band EQ, you can adjust for any speaker-specific quirks, but out of box, I like DXR over K.  I wouldn’t bother with a 30-band EQ with DXRs, they sound great. I don’t like to EQ tune to just one voice or sound, I play 20 or more different voices in a show.  (btw, I’m not a Yamaha rep or affiliated in any way.  I play an EV ELX112P, which also sounds great)

AP is the place where stereo might add the most value to XF sound, on that I agree.  I don’t care for the monoaural patch in XF.  I use it on one song, as a background second instrument fill, but I don’t like it.  I think the other stereo pianos collapsed down to mono sound better.  jom.

i’ve adopted the exact opposite approach to my stage sound:

1. I go from XF into a Stereo DI (Pro Radial D2).
2. I take both line throughs to my one speaker
3. I send stereo L/R to FOH via the XLR line outs.

for 90% of my sounds, it doesn’t matter.

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Posted on: February 15, 2016 @ 08:27 PM
stoneb3
Total Posts:  846
Joined  06-05-2011
status: Guru
motidave - 15 February 2016 03:15 PM

K10s seem to have an upper-mid/lower-high freq up-notch that sounds shrill to me.

This was my impression, particularly after playing for two hours at moderate levels. Also prior to a good run through I check the speakers response at different levels (while my ears are still fresh). Some do not appear to perform as well at lower levels. Warning bells go off. I’m quite pleased with the DXR’s, they are ideal for my needs.

My current small rig set-up occupies a 4’x6’ area, absolute minimum. This includes 2 DXR’s and a double tier stand for two keyboards. Under the lower board resides a four space rack that houses power distribution, a MOTU mixer/interface, and other related gear. Set-up is color coded and takes minutes. Anyone but the color blind can do it. The MOTU allows me to send a variety of signals to a number of locations. I can also receive a monitor send from FOH to place in my system. Once the levels are mixed via FOH, I can control the overall volume on my end. Forgot to mention the DXR’s are used in monitor position, that is, tilted on their sides up at me.
I don’t use any outboard EQ’s anymore, with the advances in gear design I haven’t had the need. I EQ the programs on the board. My aim is to recreate the same quality sound I get from the boards’ headphone jack with a decent set of cans. And then pass that from myself to FOH where it’s their gig to make it happen.
I do not play on stage in mono, ever, period. I’ll stay home and listen to some good ol’ 1950’s monophonic on the hi-fi. I do carry in-ears but despise them.

I played a lot of gigs last year both in and outside, large venues and some small. All but one were on stereo systems. My lone mono gig was a radio show that was likely broadcast over a phone line. From what I’ve seen, mono is a disappearing act these days, and thankfully so. I program a lot of moving sounds and I can see the response from peoples faces when I play them. If you can’t hear that a droning filter sweep on the right has moved to an explosion on the left then there’s something wrong with your ears. I don’t care where you stand, you’re gonna hear it, they all do.
Can’t imagine listening to The Wall in between acts… in mono? Ugh.

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Posted on: February 15, 2016 @ 09:34 PM
KMKKEYS
Avatar
Total Posts:  141
Joined  02-16-2009
status: Pro

My favorite amp is the Barbetta Sona 41c.  It weighs 41 lbs. and has 550 watts of true bi-amped power through 2-10” speakers and a tweeter.

If you are serious about your sound, at least look into one.  They are not cheap, but they sound great and can get as loud as your favorite guitar player shredding, you know what I mean.

Matter of fact, I own two of them for I get the itch to play in stereo.

In fairness, I’ve never AB’d them to a QSC or some of the newer powered speakers available, but I have with Roland, Traynor, and several others.  Not even close.

I don’t work for Barbetta and to be honest, I did have a small problem with one of them and it was a small challenge to contact the owner, Tony Barbetta.  Once I did, the matter was fixed at no charge and has worked fine since.

I do have musicians sit it in on my gigs as guests and they all say the same thing, “Damn that amp sounds good, and I’ve never heard of Barbetta”.

A couple of friends have since bought them.

Their website is http://www.barbetta.com

Hope this helps,

Kenny

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Posted on: February 18, 2016 @ 06:08 AM
kevin
Total Posts:  84
Joined  11-13-2003
status: Experienced

Update: 2/17/16

I used the borrowed K10s at rehearsal last night for the first time with the full band. What a difference from my old mono keyboard amp! They had WAY more volume than I’ll ever need, even in this 7 pc. horn band.  Everyone liked the new sound. The noticeable differences included piano depth without stepping on the bass player and a more natural tone on pianos, acoustic and electric, and Hammond voices. 

I am definitely sold on running stereo on stage with two 10” cabs. I’ll also be ditching the EQ idea but still using a small mixer set atop my S70xs. 

I ordered a pair of DXR10s and am now awaiting their arrival.  The K10s will be here when the Yamahas arrive so I can do a side by side comparison to make the final decision.  It’s down to QSC or Yamaha. 

I also ordered a Rapco Horizon Stereo/Mono DI Box so that I will be able to monitor my own backline amplification in stereo and also have the option of sending stereo or mono to FOH depending on what the sound engineer wants.

The same friend who loaned me the K10s dropped off a pair of Alto 10s the other day. Although loud enough, light enough and way less expensive, the Altos didn’t compare to the tonal quality of the K10s.  However, if I hadn’t already heard the richness of the K10s, I may have been ok with the Altos. (side note - For the price, this company is worth looking at. I own 6 Alto 12” powered coax floor wedge monitors that I use for rehearsals and smaller gigs. I also have 4 Alto 12” stand up cabs. I’ve never had a problems and they perform very well.)

This thread it getting pretty long … if anyone is still listening I’ll post my final decision when I get the DXR10s.

Kevin

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Posted on: February 18, 2016 @ 08:10 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3104
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
kevin - 18 February 2016 06:08 AM

...if anyone is still listening I’ll post my final decision when I get the DXR10s.

Kevin

When it comes to monitors and live sound, we’re always listening!

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Posted on: February 18, 2016 @ 12:25 PM
benj00
Total Posts:  113
Joined  06-03-2011
status: Pro

Hi Kevin,

Both those speaker setups will probably sound pretty sweet. However, I think the QSC’s are known for not only sounding good, but also being pretty bulletproof.

Just an FYI, I looked into getting a small mixer like this one (http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMX400?siid=38044&-ORgssCFdaPHwod6p8EXw=) but decided against it as the smaller ones can be noisy and it was something extra to set up....

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Posted on: February 24, 2016 @ 06:14 AM
kevin
Total Posts:  84
Joined  11-13-2003
status: Experienced

The Yamaha DXR10’s arrived early yesterday. I did a side-by-side comparison with the borrowed QSC K10s I have here. It didn’t take long to make my decision. Here’s what I found:
• Both the DXRs and K10s sound great. (especially in stereo)
• The A/B comparison confirmed what I thought I was hearing from the K10s before I got the Yamahas. I felt the K10s sounded just a bit “machiney”, especially on acoustic pianos, organs and strings. 
• The DXR10s sounded much warmer and full with all voices.
My decision is to go with the Yamaha DXR10s both because of the warmer tonal quality and lower price point. 

So, at least for now, here’s my final stage set-up.
• Yamaha S70XS out L & R to Rapco Horizon stereo/mono DI box.
• DI box to small Behringer mixer with three band EQ. (maybe upgrade mixer later)
• Mixer Main outs to two Yamaha DXR10s
• DI to FOH stereo or mono (depending on the engineer)

(benj00 – I did consider QSC’s reputation for building a solid product. In fact, I still own a few old QSC power amps that just won’t quit.  However, I’m very comfortable with Yamaha products also.)

I have one other issue to deal with but it’s not speaker or amplification related so I’ll start a new
thread. 

A sincere thanks to all who gave their opinions.

  [ Ignore ]  


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