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Viewing topic "Motif Volume issues."

   
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Posted on: February 09, 2016 @ 07:35 PM
Venatt
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Total Posts:  710
Joined  07-11-2004
status: Guru

Will one DXR10 do the job or do I need the pair ?

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Posted on: February 09, 2016 @ 07:52 PM
5pinDIN
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Joined  09-16-2010
status: Guru
Venatt - 09 February 2016 07:35 PM

Will one DXR10 do the job or do I need the pair ?

You can use the L/MONO output of the XF, but if you play stereo Voices there will be a degree of phase cancellation. That can cause loss of sound level at certain (often unpredictable) frequencies. Whether you’ll find that acceptable is a personal decision.

Also, many (most?) effects rely on stereo. If you play mono Voices, and don’t mind the loss of some effects, then a single speaker might be adequate. Otherwise, a pair of speakers might be preferable.

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Posted on: February 09, 2016 @ 08:58 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3007
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
Venatt - 09 February 2016 07:35 PM

Will one DXR10 do the job or do I need the pair ?

Just to add to the good information 5pinDIN has provided:

You opened this thread in search of ways to increase the presence of your Motif within an ensemble configuration.

The Motifs were really designed to be stereo keyboards...notwithstanding a handful of specifically mono VOICES...especially in the effects department, as mentioned.

I have come to believe over several years, that many (not all!) of the problems people are having with the presence issue are caused in part by trying to get presence utilizing a mono setup.

I really recommend you do everything you can to provide a stereo stage configuration for your setup.  This is especially true if the sound you are producing with your gear is providing the total “room” sound...that is, without being additionally run through a FOH system which will often be mono and out of your control.

Some of your posts suggest your problems are with the presence you get when you are the single source of the sound being heard.  When your personal gear is the sole source of your keyboard sound, I believe you will constantly fight the presence issue running in mono.

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Posted on: February 10, 2016 @ 12:28 PM
meatballfulton
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Total Posts:  3017
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

As a bassist myself, I would not recommend letting a bassist run through your mixer into your PA speakers at a rehearsal unless it’s going to be very low volume. Vocals would be fine.

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Posted on: February 11, 2016 @ 12:00 AM
benj00
Total Posts:  113
Joined  06-03-2011
status: Pro

I’m going to chime in on this thread and also on the thread in the Onstage section.

I totally agree with the idea that for the Motif XF/MOXF to sound best it should be run in stereo to FOH and you should have two monitors so you can hear yourself in stereo.

That being said:

1. I’m lazy and I don’t want to carry two powered monitors and a mixer to most gigs. I just bring one QSC K10 and run my MOXF and Nord stage in mono to each channel. There is one post gain out on the K10 that I send to FOH or mixer.  I use the Ext. Sub crossover to cut some of the really low frequencies onstage (these still get sent out the post gain out) so I’m not stepping on the bass player when I play octaves, etc in my LH (on acoustic piano, EP, etc) or organ swoops etc. A lot of sound guys I know run a high pass filter on keys or cut a decent amount of bass/mid range out so it’s worth having a conversation with them if you’re already doing this with your EQ settings. I’ve seen some pretty famous acts with thin piano/keyboard sounds and this probably has something to do with this.

2. For club gigs, I generally don’t have room onstage for two monitors and a lot of times the sound is run in mono, so I’m usually forced to go mono anyway. Even for gigs with a pro sound company and backline, keys generally get one monitor and maybe one amp. I guess you could ask for two monitors, but is it realistic to expect a stereo send to monitors? More likely you’ll get two mono sends. **Obviously in a touring situation or with a band that always plays with the same sound guy, you don’t have to deal with this**

3. I remedy the phase cancellation and stereo effect issues by auditioning all my Voices (using one speaker) with the Melas editors. In the Voice editor it’s pretty easy to see which Elements are panned L or R and when a stereo delay is being used. Some of the more modern synth sounds are set this way and I just use my ear to decide if I need to center the elements or whether the L/mono summing works well enough. Some elements have an Alternating Pan effect which sounds great in stereo, but wacky in mono. The Monoaural Grand is my go to piano Voice, and I use the VCM Compression and EQ to brighten the sound which helps it cut through when the (overly) loud guitar and bass kick in. I have the Full Concert Grand (with the VCM eq gain raised a bit) available for quiet sections, intros, jazz tunes, but there is definitely some phase cancellation going on so I use it sparingly.

4. A couple of other small points: Most classic keyboards/synths are traditionally run in mono,so I’m assuming they are sampled that way, unlike almost all of the acoustic piano sounds. The effects will sometimes be in stereo, but the essential sound is still pretty crisp and dynamic running in mono. Obviously the stereo panned stuff sounds very cool, but things can also can sound pretty great with a flat stereo image. I’ve tried summing the Leslie insert effect on the Yamaha, I wasn’t happy with the result so in the end I let the L/mono send do the work. I did however slow the fast horn/ rotor speeds to around 5HZ or so as the faster speeds sounded unnatural to me even in stereo and especially in mono. The Yamaha basic organ samples are pretty good, but I think their rotary effect is the weak link in stereo or in mono.

5. I run all my sounds in Master Mode linked to Song/Pattern mode.
This gives me the ability to EQ the Voice itself in Voice Mode, then I can EQ each track in Song/Pattern Mode, and I can use the Master EQ if I’m still not happy. (I usually leave this flat) To me this makes most of the smaller mixers I would bring to a gig pretty redundant. I spend a fair amount of time making sure all my sounds
are loud enough and at the same volume and I use VCM compression in Song/Pattern Mode to help even things out. I’ll also compare sounds with the Nord Stage to check volume. So with the QSC K10, and my Voices set like this I rarely find myself in situations where I have trouble with volume.

6. This may be stating the obvious, but I always elevate my speaker so the tweeter is about ear level, and I keep it fairly close to me so I’m not blowing everyone onstage out. I also use a pair of custom musician earplugs to keep the frequencies pretty balanced.

Again, I’m not knocking playing in stereo, just pointing out there is a case to be made for playing in mono.

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Posted on: October 23, 2017 @ 05:45 PM
KMKKEYS
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Total Posts:  122
Joined  02-16-2009
status: Pro

I agree.  Although, I run my stage rig in stereo using two Barbetta Sona Elan 41c amps, the FOH usually converts it to mono, unless I get the occasional real sound company that cares.  My rig sounds great on stage, however I rarely get out front to sample what my rig sounds like.  Of course, the sound company always tells me how great my keys sound and how great I play. (yeah right)

Even friends say that my rig sounds great, but I take that also with a grain of salt.

No big deal, I get paid at the end of the night and no one complains.

Just sayin’,

Kenny

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Posted on: November 22, 2017 @ 02:31 PM
jorgex
Total Posts:  3
Joined  11-20-2017
status: Newcomer

hello,
1:  in my xs6 , utility, i/o, set the output in +6db
2: copy preset sound to user sound, and readjust the level sound
3: set the master effect with compressor vcm376 and equalizer

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