“We have to sample this 5-zone single-layer piano to fit into our 4 Mbyte budget, but what the hell, let’s just go for all 88 keys and 16 velocity layers - we have full 3 years until the product release!”

How does Korg sample a 64GB? (Not sure the size but BIG) piano and just toss it in? Is that the nature of the soft synth platform? Going into the future I suspect that Yamaha will have to eventually convert to this platform or be forever left behind. Morphing a Yamaha soft-synth into a hardware interface. Is that transformation even possible for Yamaha and would we want it or not?

davlippo7 - 05 February 2016 12:54 PM

How does Korg sample a 64GB? (Not sure the size but BIG) piano and just toss it in? Is that the nature of the soft synth platform? Going into the future I suspect that Yamaha will have to eventually convert to this platform or be forever left behind. Morphing a Yamaha soft-synth into a hardware interface. Is that transformation even possible for Yamaha and would we want it or not?

Korg are using SSD which is flash going through a disk controller of some sort. So they have a 60Gb flash disk drive in the machine and it seems it loads some samples from that disk into memory when it starts up which is why it takes two minutes to boot.

It seems to me the montage is using flash memory but addressing it directly rather than via a disk controller. I’m guessing that there is one 8Gb module in there, 5.7Gb of samples, 1.7Gb of user area and a 600Mb Operating system. The yamaha samples use data compression to get the XXX Gb piano down to something that probably occupies a couple of Gb of sample ROM. I think this is why the Montage can boot in 15 seconds !

Of course this is all conjecture on my part....

An interesting performance (sic!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knBynPOWhQQ

from 15:00

davlippo7 - 05 February 2016 12:17 PM

Derek Cook - 05 February 2016 05:05 AM

davlippo7 - 04 February 2016 03:51 PM

I used to get around the limit on stage in my EX5 (where I did need more than two zones/layers!) by plugging a MIDI lead from MIDI OUT to MIDI IN), setting the parts to send to MIDI, and of course the parts to receive from MIDI and it worked fine; I used to have four/five layers/splits in some Performances. So, it was not a synth performance constraint, just a pretty dumb design decision.

I never tried this obviously but I’m still learning. I thought the poly limit and processing power of the EX5 unit wouldn’t allow the tone generator to exceed it’s maximum capability limits. Did you run out of notes quickly with all those layers?

You still have the DSP limitations of four parts with insert effects only, or one “special voice” and one part with insert effect, but within those confines, I used to get four or five layers/splits going depending on the song. I had to careful with programming of course.

I really couldn’t believe the EX5 two layer limit when I found about it!

I have heard somewhere that the 8 part limit in the Montage is due to the Sound switching, but not sure how true that is

Mantra - 05 February 2016 02:35 PM

davlippo7 - 05 February 2016 12:54 PM

“We have to sample this 5-zone single-layer piano to fit into our 4 Mbyte budget, but what the hell, let’s just go for all 88 keys and 16 velocity layers - we have full 3 years until the product release!”

How does Korg sample a 64GB? (Not sure the size but BIG) piano and just toss it in? Is that the nature of the soft synth platform? Going into the future I suspect that Yamaha will have to eventually convert to this platform or be forever left behind. Morphing a Yamaha soft-synth into a hardware interface. Is that transformation even possible for Yamaha and would we want it or not?

Korg are using SSD which is flash going through a disk controller of some sort. So they have a 60Gb flash disk drive in the machine and it seems it loads some samples from that disk into memory when it starts up which is why it takes two minutes to boot.

It seems to me the montage is using flash memory but addressing it directly rather than via a disk controller. I’m guessing that there is one 8Gb module in there, 5.7Gb of samples, 1.7Gb of user area and a 600Mb Operating system. The yamaha samples use data compression to get the XXX Gb piano down to something that probably occupies a couple of Gb of sample ROM. I think this is why the Montage can boot in 15 seconds !

Of course this is all conjecture on my part....

The Kronos has an SSD which all the samples are stored in. It can then preload the sample starts into memory and stream the rest of the samples from disk when you play them. Very powerful, and the Korg pianos sound beautiful, especially with the sympathetic resonance and a touch of reverb

Having said that, I still prefer the old EX5 Stereo Piano preset (tweaked to my taste) for certain songs! It cuts through the mix really well!

Yamaha is making a huge mistake with Montage. This was supposed to be a next-gen synth. At they very least Yamaha should have included an analog engine too, and it’s not too late, since the firmware in Montage is upgradeable. By adding a virtual subtractive analog synth-engine they can just allow the DSP to divvy-up the 128 note FM polyphony into 64 notes each between the FM and Virtual analog, very doable. Please wake-up Yamaha, you’re proving to be quite ignorant and negligent and nonsensical, seriously.

For those wanting to hear more auditions of Montage, i’ve always found this Jap guy at Youtube to do a good job over the years. A direct feed from the Montage outputs, so it’s 99% representative of the true sound…

Youtube… “YAMAHA MONTAGE Demo & Review” musictrackjp

Duration 30.05 Posted 1st Feb

Can someone tell me if the Cubase AI that comes with the Montage will run on windows 10? It states specifically windows 7/8 but many laptops are running windows 10 especially by May.

davlippo7 - 05 February 2016 09:15 PM

Can someone tell me if the Cubase AI that comes with the Montage will run on windows 10? It states specifically windows 7/8 but many laptops are running windows 10 especially by May.

I am running Cubase Pro 8.5 on Windows 10 without any problems. I would expect Cubase AI would work as well, but I haven’t tried it. However, Windows 10 is specifically mentioned on the Cubase Pro web page, but not on the Cubase AI web page.

It looks like Cubase AI is compatible with Windows 10:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/product-compatibility-info-regarding-mac-os-x-1011-el-capitan.html

moxrox - 05 February 2016 10:13 PM

It looks like Cubase AI is compatible with Windows 10:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/product-compatibility-info-regarding-mac-os-x-1011-el-capitan.html

Please note this link IS for Windows 10, despite the references to El Capitan in the URL.

moxrox - 05 February 2016 10:16 PM

moxrox - 05 February 2016 10:13 PM

It looks like Cubase AI is compatible with Windows 10:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/product-compatibility-info-regarding-mac-os-x-1011-el-capitan.html

Please note this link IS for Windows 10, despite the references to El Capitan in the URL.

In this spec. “DVD-ROM dual-layer drive” what does the dual-layer mean if I’m buying a drive for my laptop? I’m assuming it’s required for the drive capability but I’m not seeing it listed much.

To answer my own question I did find a few external drives that will handle 2/3 layers. I guess I’ll get one of those to be sure it works.

davlippo7 - 06 February 2016 12:38 AM

moxrox - 05 February 2016 10:16 PM

moxrox - 05 February 2016 10:13 PM

It looks like Cubase AI is compatible with Windows 10:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/product-compatibility-info-regarding-mac-os-x-1011-el-capitan.html

Please note this link IS for Windows 10, despite the references to El Capitan in the URL.

In this spec. “DVD-ROM dual-layer drive” what does the dual-layer mean if I’m buying a drive for my laptop? I’m assuming it’s required for the drive capability but I’m not seeing it listed much.

To answer my own question I did find a few external drives that will handle 2/3 layers. I guess I’ll get one of those to be sure it works.

Have you ever watched a DVD and noticed a pause in playback of a second or so? That is the DVD drive reseeking and refocusing its laser onto the second layer. Layers are a way of getting more information onto a DVD of a fixed size. Think of layers as plates stacked up, each plate with its own data.

What Yamaha are telling you is that the DVD they will be providing is dual layer, so you will need a drive capable of reading at least two layers to access all the content.

To me, it is a good thing that Yamaha has not pursued the SSD approach. The SSD approach is good for some users. I do not prefer the SSD approach.

In my opinion, the SSD approach is great for a gigantic library ready to go from your keyboard, in the multi-engine landscape, including sequencer.
However, I do not like the slight lag I observed (on only a few in-store tests) from a main piano sound that was utilizing the SSD as corroborated by the blinking lights.

Of course, larger size helps “sound”. (Sustain, etc...)
I wonder if the player who prefers the EX5 on a few tracks because it cuts through is because of the more direct connection of his playing with the sound- and in a band circumstance, sustain could take a backseat for some.

I do not think Yamaha will get left behind if they fail to pursue the SSD. To me, this area was my single most concern. And, it’s my guess that Yamaha will stick with this system for the next long Montage haul. And I think that’s great.

dsetto - 06 February 2016 02:10 PM

To me, it is a good thing that Yamaha has not pursued the SSD approach. The SSD approach is good for some users. I do not prefer the SSD approach.

In my opinion, the SSD approach is great for a gigantic library ready to go from your keyboard, in the multi-engine landscape, including sequencer.
However, I do not like the slight lag I observed (on only a few in-store tests) from a main piano sound that was utilizing the SSD as corroborated by the blinking lights.

Of course, larger size helps “sound”. (Sustain, etc...)
I wonder if the player who prefers the EX5 on a few tracks because it cuts through is because of the more direct connection of his playing with the sound- and in a band circumstance, sustain could take a backseat for some.

I do not think Yamaha will get left behind if they fail to pursue the SSD. To me, this area was my single most concern. And, it’s my guess that Yamaha will stick with this system for the next long Montage haul. And I think that’s great.

I totally agree with this. Most players will probably wind up using a two keyboard approach for live (kronos-montage or nord stage -montage), and in the studio if you want a large sample piano, you can just open one in your DAW . The Montage is and should be about cool sounds, control surfaces, and workflow.

I think to increase the “whoah sweet” factor and to compete with the kronos they should have bundled the four reface engines into the Montage along with an editor suite (similar to the melas tools) to edit performances/live sets and each engine.

benj00 - 06 February 2016 05:12 PM

dsetto - 06 February 2016 02:10 PM

To me, it is a good thing that Yamaha has not pursued the SSD approach. The SSD approach is good for some users. I do not prefer the SSD approach.

In my opinion, the SSD approach is great for a gigantic library ready to go from your keyboard, in the multi-engine landscape, including sequencer.
However, I do not like the slight lag I observed (on only a few in-store tests) from a main piano sound that was utilizing the SSD as corroborated by the blinking lights.

Of course, larger size helps “sound”. (Sustain, etc...)
I wonder if the player who prefers the EX5 on a few tracks because it cuts through is because of the more direct connection of his playing with the sound- and in a band circumstance, sustain could take a backseat for some.

I do not think Yamaha will get left behind if they fail to pursue the SSD. To me, this area was my single most concern. And, it’s my guess that Yamaha will stick with this system for the next long Montage haul. And I think that’s great.

I totally agree with this. Most players will probably wind up using a two keyboard approach for live (kronos-montage or nord stage -montage), and in the studio if you want a large sample piano, you can just open one in your DAW . The Montage is and should be about cool sounds, control surfaces, and workflow.

I think to increase the “whoah sweet” factor and to compete with the kronos they should have bundled the four reface engines into the Montage along with an editor suite (similar to the melas tools) to edit performances/live sets and each engine.

Montage 88, kronos61, Nordlead4 rack, Integra7..  And you are all set....

Or just, Montage 8 with a Windows Surface 4 and Varranger, BandInaBox, Cubase, Karma for Motif, and a dozen top knotch VST.s ...

Or Montage 8 with a macbook ableton live, mainstage and push…

Or maybe Montage 8 with Tyros 5.......

What i am looking forward to, is how much audio over USB will be improved by the Montages D/A converter, which according to the Yamaha demonstrators is responsible for considerable chunck of the sound quallity..