I have an ES8 and Cubase 8.0.30. I have the ES installed as a External Instrument an I am able to (when the ES is in Voice Mode) select and change ES voices from Cubase successfully.

My question is this: Is it possible to use the Multi-Timbral aspects of the ES from within Cubase, as in access more than one voice at a time?

For example should I put the ES into song mode so I can have multiple voices coming back into Cubase? I am not wanting 16 different channels coming back in, just having multiple voices come back into Cubase through the stereo input I have setup would be fine. Of course if I could get some separation of voice on multiple Cubase tracks that would be a plus.

I have found plenty of guides on integrating the later XF and XS models into Cubase and tried to glean some information in hopes it would help me setup the ES but to no avail. I would think the ES would be able to offer more in the way of integration with Cubase than just a single voice control. However it may be a limited instrument in the eyes of Cubase.

Thanks for any help in advance for a guy who is just now trying to get more out of his ES… Hopefully there will still be some people still using ES’s with current DAW’s :-)

Hi cleedev,

The ES is 16 part multi timbral, which means it can use up to 16 parts across 16 MIDI channels, simultaneously.

You certainly should be able to use all 16 parts with Cubase if your ES is set to Song Mode.

Switch over from Voice mode to Song mode.

In Cubase, if you create a MIDI track, you will see that you can assign each new track to a MIDI channel.

Each MIDI channel corresponds directly to a part in song mode.

MIDI Channels 1-16 = ES Parts 1-16

You can likely create hundreds of MIDI tracks in Cubase, but they will all share the 16 channels (designated by you)

Cubase will allow you to play and record MIDI data to trigger whatever sounds you set up in song mode.

You don’t have to use all 16.

Thanks philwoodmusic! Love your Avatar!

Still a little confused by the way I have it setup, I have the Motif as a External Instrument. What you are saying is don’t use it as an External Instrument in Cubase, just set up to 16 MIDI tracks in Cubase with each one pointing to a different MIDI channel and send them to the Motif correct?

Yes, you could ditch using an external instrument and do all of that.  It would be the most simple way there is of working with multiple parts using Cubase and your ES, but your use of an external instrument makes me wonder about your cabling and set up.

Is your Motif only ever heard through Cubase using an external interface of some kind? ...and it doesn’t connect to a mixer or direct to an amplifier of some kind instead?  (and that’s a big part of why you set up an external instrument)

Do you have other gear doing the same thing set up as external instruments?

Yes, the Motif isn’t heard outside of anything other than Cubase. My signal flow is below.

Motif [MIDI Out] ====> USB ====> DAW Computer [Yamaha USB MIDI Driver]

Motif [Audio Out LR] ===> Yamaha DM1000 Mixer [Mic Input ==> Direct ADAT out] ===> RME RayDat Card [ADAT in] ===> DAW Computer\Cubase [External Instrument Input]

No other gear, just a Motif, DM1000, and computer.

When should you use a External Instrument, and when should you not?

I was thinking by using the external instrument that ultimately I could save the multiple voice assignments in my Cubase project, so I wouldn’t have to recall them manually from the Motif every time I was working on my project.

However, currently I can’t get more than one voice at a time out of the Motif, so I am a ways off from using multiple voices. I feel like I am close to achieving the above scenario, just missing some of the setup necessary?

The point of an external instrument (as I see it) is to make using MIDI gear and returning the resulting audio from it to Cubase an easy to follow, organized and automatic process.  I suppose it assumes that you want to capture that audio on Cubase audio tracks.

That covers what you believe about saving your voice assignments and being able to recall them with ease.

Voice mode isn’t multi timbral which is why you can only get one voice at a time, so leaving the Motif in Song Mode is your only option really.

You can still use an external instrument in Cubase to make it all easy.

Have you tried to install Studio Manager? It gives you possibility to simply work on 16 channels and every change is sent immediately to the ES and vice versa. I’m using both Cubase 8 and Cubase 7.5, since the second one is installed on Win 7 32bit to keep mLAN interface with ES. Since Studio Manager works on Cubase 7.5 I suppose that it would work on Pro 8 also. The only reason why I don’t use SM on Cubase 8 is because it is installed on another disk with Win 7 64bit and Yamaha Steinberg FW intended for Rack XS.

Alex

I have SM installed (using it with my DM1000). Unfortunately I am running 64-bit Cubase and Motif Studio Manager plugins never got updated to 64-bit compatibility. That would be awesome if the SM integration would work, but it is long gone and never to return. Awesome you are using 32-bit and reaping the benefits though.

I feel like I am missing something simple to get this to work. I’m just going to keep chugging away until I do.

Thinking I should have posted my original message in the Mofitfator Steinberg forum lol…

Thanks for your help!

I got it to work using philwoodsmusic’s guidance of having the ES in Song mode and assigning multiple MIDI tracks, with each one utilizing a separate voice He’s right, it is really simple.

I’m still stumped why this won’t work using the ES as an External Instrument, it seems like other VST synths have the capability to assign all 16 channels to different voices from a single VST instrument track?

Can someone enlighten me, so when should you use an external instrument, and when should you not?

cleedev - 23 December 2015 01:18 AM

I got it to work using philwoodsmusic’s guidance of having the ES in Song mode and assigning multiple MIDI tracks, with each one utilizing a separate voice He’s right, it is really simple.

I’m still stumped why this won’t work using the ES as an External Instrument, it seems like other VST synths have the capability to assign all 16 channels to different voices from a single VST instrument track?

Can someone enlighten me, so when should you use an external instrument, and when should you not?

All creating an external instrument for the Motif ES does is allow Cubase to monitor audio coming back from it and allow you to associate its MIDI channels with the correct audio inputs in Cubase, with a view to capturing your music as digital audio.

Short of creating a number of instrument tracks in Cubase all assigned to your ES’s external instrument and designating each its own individual MIDI channel, I have an idea where you might be getting a bit twisted up, roll with me, I say might, so I might be wrong.

Because whatever you create as an external instrument shows up under “add instrument track” you are perhaps expecting or hoping it to behave like Halion or another virtual instrument would on an instrument track, and it won’t.  Why?  Sadly, it’s not the same thing, Cubase just puts it there because you can use an instrument track with it, as a matter of organisation. 

In order for your ES to work the same way as your favourite VSTIs, you would need to have 16 stereo audio outputs coming from your ES (thats 32 mono outputs in total, which something like Halion or Omnisphere can do with ease, virtually). 

In one of your posts above, you say that you are using the main L+R outputs of the ES.  That means all your sounds, even if they are split up across 16 multi timbral parts in Song Mode, will be coming out of those left and right outputs.  This means that you can only create an external instrument with a single stereo input or two mono inputs from your ES max.

When to use one?

Let’s say you had 8 hardware synths, each with stereo left and right analogue outputs and an audio interface for Cubase with 16 mono inputs.

You’d cable Synth 1’s audio outputs to audio inputs 1 and 2 on the interface, then Synth 2’s to 3 and 4 and so on.

In Cubase, creating an external instrument would just be a way of rubber banding Synth 1’s audio inputs (on 1 and 2) with Synth 1’s MIDI.  So if you do create an instrument track with your external instrument (Synth 1), Cubase knows what MIDI and what audio inputs to look at right away for that device, and it all just works.

You can only achieve what you are hoping for if your Motif ES has the right number of multiple AUDIO outputs, which it doesn’t.

If it did, you could go ahead and create an external instrument which associates the hardware’s MIDI with all of it’s multiple audio outputs, and within the instrument track(s) created from that, you would be able to split everything up with multiple MIDI parts being routed to multiple audio channels. (which would be fantastic, like a FW16E)

In song mode, you are already aware that you can have up to 16 multi timbral parts, but they all come out of your stereo L+R outputs unless you are able to configure your ES otherwise for mutli channel audio output.

I may have the wrong idea of what you are trying to achieve, but that’s how I read what you’ve posted.

If I’m not following you, sorry about that.

Screenshots may help.

Thanks philwoodmusic - perfect explanation and spot on!

Because whatever you create as an external instrument shows up under “add instrument track” you are perhaps expecting or hoping it to behave like Halion or another virtual instrument would on an instrument track, and it won’t.  Why?  Sadly, it’s not the same thing, Cubase just puts it there because you can use an instrument track with it, as a matter of organisation.


Exactly! I was thinking there was a way to assign the 16 ES voices from the same virtual instrument track.

In order for your ES to work the same way as your favourite VSTIs, you would need to have 16 stereo audio outputs coming from your ES (thats 32 mono outputs in total, which something like Halion or Omnisphere can do with ease, virtually).

Was this possible back in the 32-bit days with an mLAN card?

In Cubase, creating an external instrument would just be a way of rubber banding Synth 1’s audio inputs (on 1 and 2) with Synth 1’s MIDI.  So if you do create an instrument track with your external instrument (Synth 1), Cubase knows what MIDI and what audio inputs to look at right away for that device, and it all just works.

Makes perfect sense now ;-), thanks again for providing the “Aha!” moment

cleedev - 23 December 2015 01:12 PM

I was thinking there was a way to assign the 16 ES voices from the same virtual instrument track.

As I mentioned before talking about the audio routing, there may be a way of using the same external instrument over multiple instrument tracks.

What happens if you add several instrument tracks for your Motif ES external instrument and assign each one of them to a different MIDI channel

Then put the Motif in song mode.

I think I can only have one Instrument Track, unless I create multiple External Instrument instances of the ES? It appears you can only use one External Instrument instance at a time. I’ve attached all the screenshots of my current setup for reference.

The way I have it setup now, I have a single ES instrument track on MIDI Channel 1, the ES is in Song Mode. I have 4 MIDI tracks on Channels 2-5, each with a different voice with the output routed to the ES Instrument track. (I could have tracks 6-16 as well, this was really just a proof-of-concept to try this setup out)

If you notice I have the ES as a Track instrument, I’m looking to see what the difference would be if I have it as a Rack instrument. Right now I don’t know the differences, or the pros and cons of each… Doing more research…

Right now everything works really slick IMO, but there is about a bazillion ways to set this stuff up, just want to make sure I am doing it right…

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