Hello all,

my 10-year old Fantom X7 is getting long in the tooth and I am researching potential replacements.
I’m digging through the Motif XF7 manual but can’t find anything about USB audio. In fact, the manual says:

A USB cable and appropriate USB-MIDI Driver are necessary to connect the MOTIF XF to the computer. Follow the instructions below. Note that only MIDI data can be transmitted through a USB cable.

I know the MOX does USB Audio, so I wondered if they did not include this on the XF7 because of the FW16E board? That would be unfortunate. My DAW computer still has FW but my laptop does not, and I’d be looking at this primarily for using VI’s live.

Thanks.

zephonic - 05 May 2015 08:13 PM

Hello all,

my 10-year old Fantom X7 is getting long in the tooth and I am researching potential replacements.
I’m digging through the Motif XF7 manual but can’t find anything about USB audio. In fact, the manual says:

A USB cable and appropriate USB-MIDI Driver are necessary to connect the MOTIF XF to the computer. Follow the instructions below. Note that only MIDI data can be transmitted through a USB cable.

I know the MOX does USB Audio,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, the MOX and MOXF are capable of audio over USB, but the XF indeed is not.

 

zephonic -

so I wondered if they did not include this on the XF7 because of the FW16E board? That would be unfortunate. My DAW computer still has FW but my laptop does not, and I’d be looking at this primarily for using VI’s live.

Thanks.

Your member profile indicates OS X - if your laptop is a Mac with Thunderbolt port, an inexpensive adapter will provide FW.

zephonic - 05 May 2015 08:13 PM

I’d be looking at this primarily for using VI’s live

Just to add to what 5pinDIN has said, your virtual instruments should work perfectly with MIDI over USB between your computer and your XF.

Since MIDI is all that’s needed to play them and their audio can be heard via your computer’s internal sound card, you might not need to look at anything else.

5pinDIN - 05 May 2015 08:27 PM

Your member profile indicates OS X - if your laptop is a Mac with Thunderbolt port, an inexpensive adapter will provide FW.

Thanks for your reply. I know this is an option, but the FW16E card still goes for $269 and I’d be reluctant to shell out that much for what is essentially moribund technology.

It is unfortunate that Yamaha didn’t include USB audio functionality on its flagship model, all the more so because the entry-level boards do have it.

philwoodmusic - 05 May 2015 08:34 PM

Since MIDI is all that’s needed to play them and their audio can be heard via your computer’s internal sound card, you might not need to look at anything else.

Yes, that is what I’m doing now with the Fantom. I take the MBA’s audio out and connect it to the Fantom’s input, so I still have volume control on the keyboard.

I assume this is possible with the XF as well.

Yes, you can do the same thing using the Motif XF’s A/D inputs.

zephonic - 05 May 2015 09:07 PM

5pinDIN - 05 May 2015 08:27 PM

Your member profile indicates OS X - if your laptop is a Mac with Thunderbolt port, an inexpensive adapter will provide FW.

Thanks for your reply. I know this is an option, but the FW16E card still goes for $269 and I’d be reluctant to shell out that much for what is essentially moribund technology.

My reply was in response to your having said “That would be unfortunate. My DAW computer still has FW but my laptop does not”. Since you consider FW “moribund technology”, why would the lack of a port on your laptop matter?

5pinDIN - 05 May 2015 10:42 PM

zephonic - 05 May 2015 09:07 PM

5pinDIN - 05 May 2015 08:27 PM

Your member profile indicates OS X - if your laptop is a Mac with Thunderbolt port, an inexpensive adapter will provide FW.

Thanks for your reply. I know this is an option, but the FW16E card still goes for $269 and I’d be reluctant to shell out that much for what is essentially moribund technology.

My reply was in response to your having said “That would be unfortunate. My DAW computer still has FW but my laptop does not”. Since you consider FW “moribund technology”, why would the lack of a port on your laptop matter?

I guess I could have been more clear. There was a time when the FW16E was standard on the XS, I believe. I assumed it to be standard on the XF.

I am using a FW audio interface and have another one somewhere in the closet. I have Two external FW hard drives, and everything works fine. In that sense FW is still perfectly viable.

But to pay $269 for technology that -for all intents and purposes- has already been EOL’d? Not sure if that makes sense, this late in the game.

Anyway, the lack of USB audio is not necessarily a dealbreaker, but it is a little disappointing. I’d go with the MOXF, but they don’t make a 76-key model, and no aftertouch.

I hear you regarding your concerns. Currently, I don’t have or need the FW card.

For your particular needs. It’s a cool thing you do. I imagine it’s for live use. It’s very streamlined. To play an XF7 and midi trigger a VI (win/mac) and control audio in a streamlined way … It sounds like to do the same thing on the XF7 without the FW16E, you have to leave the laptop either analog or spidf and enter the A/D input. I’ve never tried it so I can’t talk about how that works. At most, you may need a small audio interface.

Another non fw16E clunkier solution would be to velcro a tiny little sub $100 mixer on the left side of the XF7. And if you prefer an audio interface for the VI pc, you can get a small one. Or maybe there’s a desirable single device that can be both a decent VI audio interface and a mixer, that can be easily positioned, with a decent volume control.

Or, alternatively, to maintain the same laptop-keyboard setup to hear VI & keyboard, it can be accomplished with a mac. If you’re willing to go that route. (I.e., XF7+FW16E+thunderbolt adapter+Macbook)

I have no idea of how the FW16E would connect with a non-thunderbolt pc. (Less concern for me, as I rely more on mac.) Anybody connect a FW16E to a non-FW equipped PC?

But philwoodmusic’s solution sounds like the simplest one to do what you want, and you don’t need the fw16e for it.

…

But, I’ll tell you this—with the XF7, and the potential of 4GB of flash memory for an additional $800, … Perhaps you will find a way to not need the laptop at all. Personally, I think I could get all the synthesis & synth sounds, and organs, and other, that will keep me very satisfied for a very long time, without a laptop. … I do crave a real-time deep synthesis platform; and I can see a VI in conjunction with my XF7 fulfilling that. … But, I’m pre-occupied with XF7 “in-house” potential at the moment. And by the way, I’ve gotten really far without the flash memory. Once you get the hang of things, I can quickly load Voice Banks into my SDRAM, into my always connected tiny thumbnail drive. And moreso, AWM2 + XF preset waveform, sans computer, … that’s where I’ve been living.

In response to the desirability of the MOXF’s 2/2 usb audio … Conjecture: perhaps, seeing the writing on the wall, Yamaha made the FW16E optional on the XF. Putting myself in their 2008 mindset … Going with firewire to get 16 digital audio out, and 6 digital in, and MIDI, based on their history with it, seems like the best call, hands down. (As opposed to exploring that with USB.) The MOXF is newer, and has newer tech.

So, as macs still have thunderbolt today, and the adapter exists, I’m comfortable that when I want what the FW16E offers, it will work on today’s computers, and maybe for a little while longer. Maybe, for a long while longer. That seems good enough.

By the way, I’m interested to know if MIDI over FW16E performs better for a VI than the XF’s serial or USB options. To me, when I’m ready, that’s almost a deal-maker for the card.

Oh, and the XF is really nice. … The MOXF sounds awesome for its niche. (price, weight) I was exploring the XF7 aftertouch yesterday. On one hand I am really glad to have it. I cannot compare it with aftertouch on other boards. If there is a weakness in the aftertouch, it likely is accompanied by a more significant strength of the FSX action. It may be related to the shallow action. I love the FSX action so much as it is, that, if its aftertouch offers me less control than another’s aftertouch, I’m fine with the tradeoff. I’ve only explored the aftertouch once. I may learn to adapt in the programming.

And, musically speaking, I would rather have polyphonic AT. But, then I was glad when I realized I have a 76 key synth. Which I could split easily. And, so while it’s an extra effort, I can have a bi-timbral sound, that responds to the across-the-board AT differently—to isolate AT to one hand. … But, that’s limiting and cumbersome; yet possible, I suppose.

I’ve never paid much attention to poly-AT. But, it sounds like that’s not been common for a while. I can imagine the attraction, as an alternative to the FSX.

I write this as you compared the XF & MOXF. To me, a big strength of the XF is to tweak in real time, on the board, without a computer. … That said, maybe I’d be fast on the MOXF as well. A way to make it work on the MOXF would likely be to incorporate the computer more in learning stages, and then once you know it, it may be faster on just the board. Or, just always have a computer—or iPad, right?!

zephonic - 06 May 2015 12:47 AM

There was a time when the FW16E was standard on the XS, I believe.

It was still MLAN at the time and it was only built into the XS8.