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Viewing topic "Live Setup Issue - Motif XF w/ secondary MIDI keyboard controller"

     
Posted on: April 23, 2015 @ 08:48 PM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

I recently purchased an XF7 and have been combing through documentation/Forums etc. to try and solve a similar problem to a previous thread - http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/467815/ Unfortunatley there was no conclusion to that thread…

I use a second keyboard as a dumb controller dedicated to transmit on Ch2.  I have created several Patterms/Songs on XF7 and can play secondary keyboard to play unique Voice/Part as assigned on Ch2 in each Pattern/Song...and control volume of that part from the XF7 on SL2.  However, when I associate such Pattern/Song to a Master (in order to use Zones and external control program change commands to a TC Helicon VoiceWorks on Ch16, I cannot get the SL2 to control volume any longer.  Since Master does not associate any Mixing (this is associated at the Pattern/Song level) I don’t understand why I lose the Cc volume functionality in the Master?

Also, previously I used a Roland A-50 controller w/ same secondary keyboard feeding Motif-Rack ES & TC Helicon VoiceWorks...in that setup any surface Cc control manipulation on secondary keyboard (ADSR, Portamento etc.) controller to any assigned voice parameters in the Motif-Rack ES worked....now that I have XF7, that doesn’t appear to be tha case any longer.

Any thoughts, help or feedback would be very helpful

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 05:10 AM
5pinDIN
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I’ll try to help, However, a couple of questions first…

Is the “SL2” a Novation SL MkII - if not, what is it?

Is the only problem that you can’t externally control volume of the Part associated with MIDI channel 2 when the XF is in Master mode?

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 06:02 AM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

Thanks SpinDIN,

SL2 = slider #2 on XF…

Correct my problem is that I cannot control Part 2 volume on FX in Master Mode (from external Ch2 input data at MIDI IN port of XF)...yet it works in Pattern/Song Play mode?  Has to be a Zone switch or MIDI filter setting issue in the associated Master but I canoyt find it!

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 08:37 AM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 24 April 2015 06:02 AM

Thanks SpinDIN,

SL2 = slider #2 on XF…

OK. We usually refer to a Motif Control Slider as CS.

 

mikevan1963 -

Correct my problem is that I cannot control Part 2 volume on FX in Master Mode (from external Ch2 input data at MIDI IN port of XF)...yet it works in Pattern/Song Play mode?  Has to be a Zone switch or MIDI filter setting issue in the associated Master but I canoyt find it!

Response to Volume/Expression can be filtered per Part in a Pattern/Song mix (with a Receive Switch setting), but since it’s apparently working in those modes, that shouldn’t be the cause of the problem.

On the XF…
Select the Master.
Press [EDIT].
Press [1] ~ [8] to select the Zone for the Part you want to externally control.
Press [F1](Transmit), make sure Transmit Channel agrees with the one for the Part, and that the box for Ext Switch has been checked.

On the controller…
Verify that you’re sending CC#7(Volume) on the channel for the Zone you want to control.

That should do it.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 11:43 AM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

5pinDIN,

Thanks again, with your help and a little experimentation with different Ch/Zone switch combinations in both the Pattern and Master I have narrowed the issue down...while I receive and pass thru to Tone block MIDI input on Ch2 from my 2nd keyboard controller and control ch2/part2/Zone2 volume from the FX7 volume slider#2 in the Master… I can only do so if my Common-Edit Knob Control Assign (KCA) is set to Tone 1.  If I attempt to set the KCA to Zone (which provides me the preferred view in display when playing the Master) I lose volume control of ch2/Part2/Zone2 on the FX volume#2???  Something I can live with but prefer the Zone view in display as I can use/see Category names under each of the 8 Zone controls (sliders)

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 01:36 PM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 24 April 2015 11:43 AM

[...]If I attempt to set the KCA to Zone (which provides me the preferred view in display when playing the Master) I lose volume control of ch2/Part2/Zone2 on the FX volume#2???[...]

When Knob Control Assign is set to “zone”, the Knob/Slider assignment is determined per Zone by settings you can make.

Select the Master.
Press [EDIT].
Press [1] ~ [8] to select the Zone you want to edit. ([2]?)
Press [[F5](KnobSlider).
Control Slider No. should be set to 07 for Volume.

See page 217 of the XF Reference Manual.

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 02:03 PM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

That’s my dilemna, when I attempt to set the knob slider assigment to Zone in Master-Edit-Common...I lose slider volume control of Zone 2 (part 2 on ch 2) even though the Zone knob/slider assigment is set to 07?

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Posted on: April 24, 2015 @ 02:33 PM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 24 April 2015 02:03 PM

That’s my dilemna, when I attempt to set the knob slider assigment to Zone in Master-Edit-Common...I lose slider volume control of Zone 2 (part 2 on ch 2) even though the Zone knob/slider assigment is set to 07?

Assuming correct MIDI channel assignments, that shouldn’t happen.

It’s kind of difficult to discuss this in the abstract. If you’re willing to post an “All” file, I can load it and see what might be going on. The file doesn’t have to include much - in fact, I’d prefer it that way.

You could…
1) Save an “All” file of your current data, FL1 and FL2 set “without sample”.

2) Load my Init User Banks.X0A file, available here:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/461620/
3) Create a Pattern/Song setup using Preset Voices. No MIDI track data is needed. STORE it.
4) Associate a Master, set up to exhibit the problem you’re having, STORE it.
5) Save an “All” file “without sample”, name it something like “Zone Test”.
5) Zip “Zone Test”, and post it as an attachment.

6) Reload the “All” file saved in step 1, setting Load options FL1 > None,
and FL2 > None to prevent Waveform duplication.

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Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 06:11 AM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

5pinDIN,

My apologies, thought I successfully posted a replay on Monday...saw it never posted and re-submitted yesterday and still not there today so am trying 3rd attempt from different computer.

Attached is the file you requested.  Please note:

Master 001 - has Control Knob Assignment set to “Zone” - and volume slider #2 does NOT control channel#2/part2

Master 002 - has Control Knob Assigment set to “Tone1” - and volume slider #2 DOES control channel#2/part 2

I also noticed a “lag” inn MIDI response from XF...sometimes I have to move the volume slider completely up and/or down before the function actually engages...have there been any other users noticing this “lag” in MIDI response/function?

File Attachments
Zone-Test.n3.zip  (File Size: 12KB - Downloads: 289)
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Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 09:38 AM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 01 May 2015 06:11 AM

[...]Attached is the file you requested.  Please note:

Master 001 - has Control Knob Assignment set to “Zone” - and volume slider #2 does NOT control channel#2/part2

Master 002 - has Control Knob Assigment set to “Tone1” - and volume slider #2 DOES control channel#2/part 2

Noted. I edited Master 001 so that it works as I presume you want it to, and attached the edited file.

What I did, and why…
You had Zone 2 Int Switch off (box unchecked), likely to stop the associated Part from playing at the XF’s keyboard. I turned it on, which allows CS#2 to control the level.

I then prevented the XF’s keys from playing that Part, done by changing Zone 2 Note Limit. I set Zone 2 Note Limit Low to G8, and Note Limit High to C-2, which prevents any of the keys from responding.

I hope that accomplishes what you needed.

 

mikevan1963 -

I also noticed a “lag” inn MIDI response from XF...sometimes I have to move the volume slider completely up and/or down before the function actually engages...have there been any other users noticing this “lag” in MIDI response/function?

That’s normal operation. The slider has to be moved past the stored value before it will engage.

File Attachments
Zone-Test 5pinDIN.n3.X3A.zip  (File Size: 14KB - Downloads: 398)
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Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 12:23 PM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

5pinDIN
Thanks so much - while I was unable to load the file because I see a “ No Flash memory Installed or module is unformatted” error( I have Flash Module on back order) - I simply changed the settings as you described and YES it does what I need it to now!  I thought limiting the Zone note limits would also effect the MIDI incoming data from 2nd controller...couldn’t see the forest for all the trees I guess!

Appreciate the help...now off to learn and experiment with other features and functions on the XF

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 12:57 PM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 01 May 2015 12:23 PM

5pinDIN
Thanks so much - while I was unable to load the file because I see a “ No Flash memory Installed or module is unformatted” error( I have Flash Module on back order) - I simply changed the settings as you described and YES it does what I need it to now!  I thought limiting the Zone note limits would also effect the MIDI incoming data from 2nd controller...couldn’t see the forest for all the trees I guess!

Appreciate the help...now off to learn and experiment with other features and functions on the XF

You’re welcome, I’m glad that you were able to make the changes and have things work the way you wanted.

While I was careful to not include samples in my file, some Waveform information is in it. I’d appreciate if you would make sure to set Load options for FL1 and FL2 to “None”, try loading my file again, and post as to whether that eliminates the error message (it should).

By the way, in the future please post XF related questions to its own forum. That way, others with the same model can benefit from the discussion. Thanks.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 01:57 PM
mikevan1963
Total Posts:  15
Joined  04-07-2009
status: Regular

Yes, I was able to laod the file when FL1 and FL2 were set to none...and my apologies as I was originally in the XF forums but then looked something up in Motif-Rack ES Forum and forgot to switch back before I posted!

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Posted on: May 01, 2015 @ 02:07 PM
5pinDIN
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mikevan1963 - 01 May 2015 01:57 PM

Yes, I was able to laod the file when FL1 and FL2 were set to none…

Thanks, I just wanted to make sure I could post such a file without problems.

 

mikevan1963 -

and my apologies as I was originally in the XF forums but then looked something up in Motif-Rack ES Forum and forgot to switch back before I posted!

No worries.  :-)

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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