I connect my M-Audio keyboard to my Rack-XS via a MIDI cable.  Everything is good.  Then I connect the Rack to my PC via a USB cable.  As soon as the PC “sees” the Rack, no more sound from MIDI in coming from keyboard.  As soon as I unplug the USB cable from the computer, sound comes back from the keyboard via MIDI

Is this normal?

What do you have MIDI In/Out set to in Utility mode?

See page 99 of the Rack XS Owner’s Manual.

I am not home right now at the instrument but, if I remember from last night, it is set to USB....

But, I just read this note in the manual at page 99

When a USB cable is not connected to the MOTIF-RACK XS, the MIDI terminal will be automatically used for
transmitting/receiving MIDI data, even if this parameter is set to “USB.”

That explains why the MIDI “comes back” when I unplug that USB cable… Right?

Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?

WOW… this piece of equipment is highly sophisticated and complex… I am very impressed… BUT, on the other side, a lot to learn.  I purchased the M-Audio Keystation 88 and the Rack-XS to replace my old Alesis Q7 keyboard....

pblais - 10 March 2015 04:01 PM

I am not home right now at the instrument but, if I remember from last night, it is set to USB....

But, I just read this note in the manual at page 99

When a USB cable is not connected to the MOTIF-RACK XS, the MIDI terminal will be automatically used for
transmitting/receiving MIDI data, even if this parameter is set to “USB.”

That explains why the MIDI “comes back” when I unplug that USB cable… Right?

Yes - that’s why I referred you to that page in the manual.

 

pblais -

Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?

See MIDI channels and MIDI ports, specifically the Port 3 information, on page 18 of the Owner’s Manual. With MIDI In/Out set to USB, data from a MIDI controller connected to the Rack’s MIDI-In will transmit on Port 3. If your software allows rerouting of that Port 3 data to Port 1, that should work.

 

pblais -

WOW… this piece of equipment is highly sophisticated and complex… I am very impressed… BUT, on the other side, a lot to learn.  I purchased the M-Audio Keystation 88 and the Rack-XS to replace my old Alesis Q7 keyboard....

It’s worth the effort, in my opinion.

5pinDIN - 10 March 2015 05:44 PM

See MIDI channels and MIDI ports, specifically the Port 3 information, on page 18 of the Owner’s Manual. With MIDI In/Out set to USB, data from a MIDI controller connected to the Rack’s MIDI-In will transmit on Port 3. If your software allows rerouting of that Port 3 data to Port 1, that should work.

I’m sorry.. but now I am totally confused..  Maybe I didn’t state my problem correctly.

When I have the USB cable connected between my PC and the rack, it doesn’t allow the MIDI data from my keyboard to come thru.  And, when I disconnect the USB cable, it now plays the MIDI data from my keyboard… What does that have to do with software?

pblais - 10 March 2015 08:17 PM

5pinDIN - 10 March 2015 05:44 PM

See MIDI channels and MIDI ports, specifically the Port 3 information, on page 18 of the Owner’s Manual. With MIDI In/Out set to USB, data from a MIDI controller connected to the Rack’s MIDI-In will transmit on Port 3. If your software allows rerouting of that Port 3 data to Port 1, that should work.

I’m sorry.. but now I am totally confused..  Maybe I didn’t state my problem correctly.

When I have the USB cable connected between my PC and the rack, it doesn’t allow the MIDI data from my keyboard to come thru.  And, when I disconnect the USB cable, it now plays the MIDI data from my keyboard…

Your original explanation was fine - I fully understood the situation. Did you read the Port 3 information I referred you to? When in USB mode, the Rack’s 5-pin MIDI ports act as an interface for MIDI data, handled via USB Port 3. That data can usually be rerouted back to the Rack’s tone generator…

 

pblais -

What does that have to do with software?

... via computer software. You previously asked “Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?”. Typically “to talk to it with my PC” requires software, does it not? What might that be?

5pinDIN - 10 March 2015 08:56 PM

pblais -

What does that have to do with software?

... via computer software. You previously asked “Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?”. Typically “to talk to it with my PC” requires software, does it not? What might that be?

OK… The software that I am using is the Yamaha editor that you recommended to me…
But that’s not the point.  When I said what I said “Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?”
That was just a generic statement…
I want to be able to have the Rack connected to both my keyboard via MIDI cable and to my computer via USB cable.  And have both “play well together"… IE… that it will be able to play MIDI stuff coming from my keyboard as well as anything coming to/from my PC.  Right now as soon as I connect the USB cable to my PC, irrelevant of the software running on the PC, the stuff coming to it from the MIDI in does not work.
I have read that section (page 18) over and over and sideways… All that lawyer talk does not show me how to get to where I want to be.  So I guess, I’ll just live with the fact that if I want to play my keyboard directly without computer, I will just have to unplug the USB cable…

Thanks again for trying to help me but I don’t see anyway around this.. It could be my thick skull that can’t be penetrated :)

Thanks for trying
Pierre

pblais - 11 March 2015 01:01 PM

5pinDIN - 10 March 2015 08:56 PM

pblais -

What does that have to do with software?

... via computer software. You previously asked “Is there any setting that will allow both MIDI from my keyboard to get thru and also be able to talk to it with my PC on USB all at the same time?”. Typically “to talk to it with my PC” requires software, does it not? What might that be?

OK… The software that I am using is the Yamaha editor that you recommended to me…
But that’s not the point. [...]

Oh, but it probably is the point. Unless the Rack XS Editor is different than the XS or XF Editor, it can be set up so that MIDI data from Port 3 (the MIDI-In connector) can be routed to Port 1 (the tone generator).

I have absolutely no problem using the XF or XS Editors with my Motifs in USB MIDI mode, and having an external keyboard connected to the 5-pin MIDI-In connector play the Motif while the Editor is running. All it requires is proper port setup in the Editor.

If you’d like to pursue this further, please post again.

OK… I’ll look in to it tonight when I am home…
From what you are saying, I need to have the editor running in order to do this.
What happens if I want to us Sonar or any other DAW to feed MIDI data from a MIDI file over to the rack?  Since Cubase 7.5 or less is the only DAW that supports VST3 and I don’t have Cubase, I would have to have the Yamaha editor running standalone at the same time as Sonar?????

Keep in mind that I still want to be able to feed the rack MIDI data from my keyboard at the same time.

pblais - 11 March 2015 03:16 PM

OK… I’ll look in to it tonight when I am home…
From what you are saying, I need to have the editor running in order to do this.

Yes - it seemed that was what you asked about. If you’re not running the editor (or some other MIDI software) then there isn’t an issue - just set MIDI In/Out to “MIDI”, or disconnect the USB cable.

 

pblais -

What happens if I want to us Sonar or any other DAW to feed MIDI data from a MIDI file over to the rack?  Since Cubase 7.5 or less is the only DAW that supports VST3 and I don’t have Cubase, I would have to have the Yamaha editor running standalone at the same time as Sonar?????

The Yamaha USB driver is “aware” of all the Rack’s ports, so any connected DAW should be able to access them and be configured properly.

 

pblais -

Keep in mind that I still want to be able to feed the rack MIDI data from my keyboard at the same time.

That’s the point of setting up the ports. The MIDI data from your keyboard would enter the MIDI-In jack, be routed through the Rack to USB Port 3, and (when properly routed through the software) fed back to the Rack’s tone generator. Exactly which MIDI data will be fed to the Rack will depend on the software.

If you did have some software that could route MIDI IN from one port to MIDI OUT on a different port, then you could do what you want. That is what 5pinDIN’s “lawyer talk” was referring to.

Rack connected to the computer over USB has multiple ports:

Port 1 carries MIDI between the rack and computer in both directions to play the rack voices and dump rack data

Port 3 carries MIDI connected to the Rack MIDI IN to the computer and from the computer to the Rack MIDI OUT. This is used to connect other MIDI devices to the computer using the Rack as an interface.

What is missing is some software that can take the incoming MIDI on Port 3 and route it back out on Port 1 to play the Rack.

BOTH PORTS ARE USING THE SAME USB CONNECTION.

I downloaded and installed the Rack XS Editor. I don’t have a Rack XS, but the Editor didn’t care (for port setup purposes, not editing). I was able to configure the ports so that an external keyboard (connected to my XF’s 5-pin MIDI-In) is able to play the XF while it’s in USB MIDI mode with the Editor running. You should be able to do the same with the Rack.

I suggest that you read Readme_MIDIPort_Editor_EN.pdf
It comes with the Editor download.

This should work…
Click Setup under “File”
On the Setup screen, USB and Detail On
Set MIDI KB In to MOTIF-R XS-3 (Port 3)
Set Port 1 - MIDI Out to MOTIF-R XS-1 (Port 1)
Set Port 4 MIDI In and MIDI Out both to MOTIF-R XS-4
Click OK
Turn Thru on at the lower right of the main screen

Let us know if you need further help in setting up the ports.

Sorry for the delay… I was away on business
I did as you said and NOTHING..  When I play my MIDI keyboard, I see the associated keys on the virtual keyboard on the bottom of editor follow but NO sound.  As soon as I unplug the USB cable, MIDI sound plays.

I also have a question about this setup.. Should I be able to get this working.. Am I going to need the editor running in order for MIDI to come through with USB cable connected?

Thanks
Pierre

what about the device# on the port 1 setup line?

pblais - 17 March 2015 10:50 PM

Sorry for the delay… I was away on business
I did as you said and NOTHING..  When I play my MIDI keyboard, I see the associated keys on the virtual keyboard on the bottom of editor follow but NO sound.  As soon as I unplug the USB cable, MIDI sound plays.

If the virtual keyboard shows activity, that’s progress - the Editor is seeing Port 3 input. Make sure that Thru is turned on ("lit") at the lower right of the main Editor screen - otherwise, MIDI data won’t be sent to the Rack.

 

pblais -

I also have a question about this setup.. Should I be able to get this working.. Am I going to need the editor running in order for MIDI to come through with USB cable connected?

There has to be an application which routes the MIDI data properly when USB is being used. It doesn’t have to be the Yamaha Editor - a DAW, for example, should be configurable.

When you’re not using software, there’s no need to have the USB connection. At that time, MIDI In/Out can be set to MIDI, or disconnect the USB cable.

 

pblais - 17 March 2015 10:58 PM

what about the device# on the port 1 setup line?

Typically the Motif is set to ”all” for device number, and in the Editor is set to ”1”. If you’ve set the Rack device number to something else, then change the Editor setting so that they match.

See Device No. on page 100 of the Owner’s Manual.

Does it matter here that my Rack does NOT have MIDI out or thru?

That being said, the owner’s manual shows that it has both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT?????????