Everywhere I look people talk about the difference in capabilities and newer type products used in the XF over the XS.  I’m not at all concerned about those, there are a thousand different ways in the music world I can get those capabilities and more.  Is the XF a better sound over the XS and if so in which way? Don’t tell me about all the other added options, effects, flash-ram, sample storage, technology, etc. that can improve the sound; most of those can be acquired by other means.  I just want to know, naked and raw; does one sound better or different than the other.  In retrospect I immediatly could hear the difference in the sound of the XS over the ES; the XS sounded better & later found out the two were structured differently or the overall things pertaining to it. 

I have not heard the XF over the XS extensively, perhaps only once or twice & that in passing.  But of the little I did hear, I heard no difference, although I’m not absolutely sure.  So just the facts: Is one different or better than the other?? 

Thank you-

makroni - 06 February 2015 07:06 AM

Everywhere I look people talk about the difference in capabilities and newer type products used in the XF over the XS.  I’m not at all concerned about those, there are a thousand different ways in the music world I can get those capabilities and more.  Is the XF a better sound over the XS and if so in which way? Don’t tell me about all the other added options, effects, flash-ram, sample storage, technology, etc. that can improve the sound; most of those can be acquired by other means.  I just want to know, naked and raw; does one sound better or different than the other.  In retrospect I immediatly could hear the difference in the sound of the XS over the ES; the XS sounded better & later found out the two were structured differently or the overall things pertaining to them. 

I have not heard the XF over the XS extensively, perhaps only once or twice & that in passing.  But of the little I did hear, I heard no difference, although I’m not absolutely sure.  So just the facts: Is one different or better than the other?? 
Thank you-

There are some changes in the XF versus the XS that could affect sound quality, such as different DACs, and some people claim they can readily hear improvement in the XF’s sound. I own both an XS6 and an XF6, and I haven’t found any significant difference.

From a previous thread of mine, here are two 16-bit 44.1kHz recordings:
WAV 1
WAV 2

One of the above is from my XS, the other from my XF.
What difference, if any, do you hear?

makroni - 06 February 2015 07:06 AM

In retrospect I immediatly could hear the difference in the sound of the XS over the ES
...
I have not heard the XF over the XS extensively, perhaps only once or twice & that in passing.  But of the little I did hear, I heard no difference, although I’m not absolutely sure.  So just the facts: Is one different or better than the other??

As 5pin indicated, the difference appears to be minimal, if you can hear it at all.

In terms of design, there was a huge change from the ES to the XS, an entire redesign. The OS was rewritten, in MontaVista Linux. I believe the hardware design was changed as well. The support for PLG cards was not carried over to the new platform. The XS did not include all the same waveforms that were in the ES.

OTOH, the XF was intended to be a “superset” of the XS, rather than a complete redesign. It includes all the same waveforms (and more, of course).
In order to even evaluate whether one model sounds better than the other, the two models have to be able to generate the same source sound.  At least you can actually generate every XS sound out of an XF, whereas you could not generate every ES sound out of an XS.

5pinDIN - 06 February 2015 09:14 AM

There are some changes in the XF versus the XS that could affect sound quality, such as different DACs, and some people claim they can readily hear improvement in the XF’s sound. I own both an XS6 and an XF6, and I haven’t found any significant difference.

From a previous thread of mine, here are two 16-bit 44.1kHz recordings:
WAV 1
WAV 2

One of the above is from my XS, the other from my XF.
What difference, if any, do you hear?

Reply to all from, Makroni

NICE COMPOSITIONS !!!

Indeed, “Mr. 5pinDIN” there is a slight noticeability of differences in some areas & stronger noticeability in other areas between the two.  It’s hard to believe these both received the same mix parameters.  The XS sounded warmer, tighter, more pumping & defined in the bass area, the warmth made the mids & highs a bit more pristine & realistic sounding on the XS; probably nothing that can’t be compensated for on the XF. Overall, it would likely not be noticeable to the layman or regular music listener; “c’mon MP3 over wave? - Where are all the audiophiles of today?” However, I’d probably prefer the XS if both mixes do indeed have equal mixing parameters. 

However, I do agree with you and all the other good people that took the time out to reply to my inquiry. Thank you all my new and honest good friends.  I also conclude there are mainly, slight & minuscule differences only, if any--

makroni - 06 February 2015 05:03 PM

NICE COMPOSITIONS !!!

Xs’d Up is a factory demo from the XF.

 

makroni -

Indeed, there is a slight noticeability of differences in some areas & stronger noticeability in other areas between the two.  It’s hard to believe these both received the same mix parameters.  The XS sounded warmer, tighter, more pumping & defined in the bass area, the warmth made the mids & highs a bit more pristine & realistic sounding on the XS. Overall, it would likely not be noticeable to the layman or regular music listener.  However, I prefer the XS if the mix had equal parameters.

The two WAV files were created with identical MIDI data.

Do you know which is the XS and which is the XF?

5pinDIN - 06 February 2015 05:34 PM

makroni - 06 February 2015 05:03 PM

NICE COMPOSITIONS !!!

Xs’d Up is a factory demo from the XF.

 

makroni -

Indeed, there is a slight noticeability of differences in some areas & stronger noticeability in other areas between the two.  It’s hard to believe these both received the same mix parameters.  The XS sounded warmer, tighter, more pumping & defined in the bass area, the warmth made the mids & highs a bit more pristine & realistic sounding on the XS. Overall, it would likely not be noticeable to the layman or regular music listener.  However, I prefer the XS if the mix had equal parameters.

The two WAV files were created with identical MIDI data.

Do you know which is the XS and which is the XF?

So then… are you trying to say you gave me the wrong info & I really chose the XF over the XS instead of the other way around, or two midi files from the same piano, etc. ?? If so that’s tricky(LOL!) Nevertheless, I still hold to my original determination, either way. Wave 1 was insignificantly different than wave 2.  In short… almost alike-

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:03 PM

Is this a question of the differences between the XF & XS?  I will assume so. It would be hard if not almost impossible to tell here.  Even though they used identical midi files, in piano design differences; the placement of a filter capacitor or the resistance of an IC or thermistor, differences in power supply diodes, etc. can create minuscule differences in the sound made up of the same files.  But likely not enough to be meaningful or can’t be compensated for.

The sound engines in the XS and XF are the same. There are some differences in the analog sections. I’m not willing to go down the path of discussing passive component differences.

 

makroni -

So then… are you trying to say you gave me the wrong info & I chose the XF over the XS instead of the other way around?? If so that’s tricky(LOL!) Nevertheless, I still hold to my original determination, either way. Wave 1 was insignificantly different than wave 2.  In short… almost alike-

Actually, I didn’t say which was which. I purposely didn’t identify the files so that your judgment wouldn’t be prejudiced by prior knowledge.

So, which WAV file do you like better, #1 or #2?

5pinDIN - 06 February 2015 06:30 PM

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:03 PM

Is this a question of the differences between the XF & XS?  I will assume so. It would be hard if not almost impossible to tell here.  Even though they used identical midi files, in piano design differences; the placement of a filter capacitor or the resistance of an IC or thermistor, differences in power supply diodes, etc. can create minuscule differences in the sound made up of the same files.  But likely not enough to be meaningful or can’t be compensated for.

The sound engines in the XS and XF are the same. There are some differences in the analog sections. I’m not willing to go down the path of discussing passive component differences.

 

makroni -

So then… are you trying to say you gave me the wrong info & I chose the XF over the XS instead of the other way around?? If so that’s tricky(LOL!) Nevertheless, I still hold to my original determination, either way. Wave 1 was insignificantly different than wave 2.  In short… almost alike-

Actually, I didn’t say which was which. I purposely didn’t identify the files so that your judgment wouldn’t be prejudiced by prior knowledge.

So, which WAV file do you like better, #1 or #2?

I’d have to re-listen in a quiet environment I did however change the volume because of outside noise.  Now realizing this, I just going to can this with simply saying they were Identical.  Hows that?

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:49 PM

5pinDIN - 06 February 2015 06:30 PM

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:03 PM

Is this a question of the differences between the XF & XS?  I will assume so. It would be hard if not almost impossible to tell here.  Even though they used identical midi files, in piano design differences; the placement of a filter capacitor or the resistance of an IC or thermistor, differences in power supply diodes, etc. can create minuscule differences in the sound made up of the same files.  But likely not enough to be meaningful or can’t be compensated for.

The sound engines in the XS and XF are the same. There are some differences in the analog sections. I’m not willing to go down the path of discussing passive component differences.

 

makroni -

So then… are you trying to say you gave me the wrong info & I chose the XF over the XS instead of the other way around?? If so that’s tricky(LOL!) Nevertheless, I still hold to my original determination, either way. Wave 1 was insignificantly different than wave 2.  In short… almost alike-

Actually, I didn’t say which was which. I purposely didn’t identify the files so that your judgment wouldn’t be prejudiced by prior knowledge.

So, which WAV file do you like better, #1 or #2?

I’d have to re-listen in a quiet environment I did however change the volume because of outside noise.  Now realizing this, I just going to can this with simply saying “they were Identical.” Hows that?

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:49 PM

I’d have to re-listen in a quiet environment I did however change the volume because of outside noise.  Now realizing this, I just going to can this with simply saying they were Identical.  Hows that?

I wasn’t looking for a particular determination. It doesn’t matter to me - I only made the two files available so that you or anyone else who might be interested could have a listen. Obviously if the listening level was different for the two files, judging them becomes difficult if not impossible. When the files were originally created they were normalized in order to specifically avoid level differences between them.

So that there’s no mystery…
WAV 1 is the XF
WAV 2 is the XS

5pinDIN - 06 February 2015 07:05 PM

makroni - 06 February 2015 06:49 PM

I’d have to re-listen in a quiet environment I did however change the volume because of outside noise.  Now realizing this, I just going to can this with simply saying they were Identical.  Hows that?

I wasn’t looking for a particular determination. It doesn’t matter to me - I only made the two files available so that you or anyone else who might be interested could have a listen. Obviously if the listening level was different for the two files, judging them becomes difficult if not impossible. When the files were originally created they were normalized in order to specifically avoid level differences between them.

So that there’s no mystery…
WAV 1 is the XF
WAV 2 is the XS[/quote

Makroni-

In that case thanks, I appreciate it good buddy-

WAV 2 sounded better for me.