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Viewing topic "MIDI send/receive issue"

   
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Posted on: January 07, 2015 @ 05:54 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular

Had another thread of problems with MPC Ren. MIDI Ins are creating note sustain issues, can’t use them. Had everything working bypassing the MPC MIDI Ins with a MIDI Sport (Ren Connected USB (Motif Settings: Quick 3, Local OFF, MIDI: MIDI, Clock out; OFF etc). Problem was I could not get to use the MIDI Outs 1-4 without using the MIDI IN. Its setup to basically do one or the other, through USB or MIDI can’t do both simultaneous. 2 weeks with dozens of hours with an Akai tech screen sharing, and conclusion is the Ren has a glitch in the firmware....

SO

I hook the 2000XL back up and now cannot get the XF and the 2K to communicate. Went back and changed settings to internal, Local on, quick setup 1, etc. on the Motif and now can’t even get it to play a note with or without local control.

Does anyone have a cut and dry list of settings I can change to?

I basically want 2 settings files

1) MPC SEQ

2) Motif Internal sequencer.

Ive watched every youtube video on this, searched as many forum posts across the web I could find, HAVE TRIED EVERY combination of settings. Doing the same thing everyone else is doing and its not working. Tried numerous times to get a Yamaha tech on the phone and no luck.

PLEASE HELP ME SOMEONE!

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Posted on: January 07, 2015 @ 10:37 PM
MrMotif
Total Posts:  1105
Joined  10-02-2002
status: Administrator

Yeee…

Maybe I’m getting old but your post made my head spin. Can you be a little clearer about what you’re trying to do? Also, remember this is a ‘Motif’ forum so chances are not everyone (by a long way) is going to know what Akai Ren is, much less use it. Generally speaking, people here are going to be able to help with a specifically ‘Motif’ problem, not a problem where you’re hooking up a Motif to other equipment.

Hopefully some help will be on its way but you’ll probably increase your chances of such arriving by perhaps re-stating your problem/request so that us mere mortals can understand what you’re trying to do.

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Posted on: January 08, 2015 @ 03:27 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
MrMotif - 07 January 2015 10:37 PM

Yeee…

Maybe I’m getting old but your post made my head spin. Can you be a little clearer about what you’re trying to do? Also, remember this is a ‘Motif’ forum so chances are not everyone (by a long way) is going to know what Akai Ren is, much less use it. Generally speaking, people here are going to be able to help with a specifically ‘Motif’ problem, not a problem where you’re hooking up a Motif to other equipment.

Hopefully some help will be on its way but you’ll probably increase your chances of such arriving by perhaps re-stating your problem/request so that us mere mortals can understand what you’re trying to do.

Apologies! Thank you for responding. I appreciate you taking the time. I was very frustrated last night and had a pot of coffee in me. lol

Basically, I use the MPC, when I changed settings to use external sequencing (for trouble shooting with Akai) then back to to normal for internal sequencing the Motif pretty much bricked, disabled it completely.

I have 2 saved “ALL” files with settings adjusted, one for internal sequencing and one for external sequencing. I load up either accordingly.

After loading the settings for internal sequencing it would not work. This includes sequencer, playing programs, etc.

I then referred to manual and changed settings accordingly. Still nothing.

I then resorted to youtube, forums etc. advice, nothing worked.

I posted here and another site.

Someone from another site recommended doing the factory reset which I did and reloaded my settings files for internal sequencing. THAT IS NOW WORKING.

So, my main question now is still the same; does anyone have a list of settings they use, that are known to work, regardless of changes. For Internal sequencing and external sequencing.

Thank you for your time!

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Posted on: January 08, 2015 @ 07:04 PM
meatballfulton
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Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

Read p.228 about setting MIDI In/Out, set this to MIDI if you are using MIDI cables between the MPC and the XF.

Read p. 232 in the Reference Manual about Quick Setup. Where the text reads “computer” thats your MPC. Those four setups will do what you need.

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Posted on: January 09, 2015 @ 09:53 AM
MrMotif
Total Posts:  1105
Joined  10-02-2002
status: Administrator

OK, what exactly do you mean by ‘settings’? Still not clear as to whether you are simply using Motif as a sound generating device or actually ‘creating’ material on it using Pattern or Song sequences.

To be honest there’s not a set of ‘standard’ settings ‘that work’. The Motif simply does work, using a 1001 different settings that you can manage and that are dependent upon what you’re doing.

So, if you are recording directly on the Motif there’s basically nothing you need to do except build up your recording and play it back!

If you are connecting the Motif-created recordings (in Pattern or Song mode) to another device then you have the choice of who you want to be in charge (i.e. running the MIDI clock - internal or external), plus you can be selective about whether tracks in a Pattern or Song only use internal sounds, only use external sounds, or both. You can send parts out on assignable audio outputs, or even digitally if you have a FireWire card installed.

Again, still not sure where your recording(s) has been initiated, nor, truthfully, what you are trying to set up. As you have clearly discovered, though, in spite of us still living in the ‘play nicely’ world of MIDI, connecting two pieces of hardware can be a very frustrating exercise. Bluntly, manufacturers have no interest in and realistically very little control over your being able to do this.  Interfacing with DAWs is tough enough but here there is a relatively limited pool of major players and platforms. Connecting hardware, though, is very much trial and error.

Your ‘problem’ may simply be one of MIDI clock and related issues, or it might be more complex in terms of MIDI messages being sent, received and interpreted in ways you are not aware of and did not expect, in which case you may need to ‘look’ at some of the data and see what’s going on.

Finally, if you can simplify your rig - even if it may mean abandoning some of the niceties you’re hoping to achieve by linkage - I suspect your frustration level and coffee intake will be reduced while your enjoyment of playing music will be increased; both of them dramatically and commensurately.

Finally, just on a point of Motifator forum style, a post entitled “PLEASE PLEASE!!! HELP HELP! etc is less likely to get noticed by someone who can help a particular problem than a post entitled “Motif and Akai Renaissance issues” or even “Recording help needed” etc etc. Imagine a 911 call where someone simply screams “I need help”. The more specific you can be the better and faster help you’re going to get.

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Posted on: January 20, 2015 @ 06:31 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
meatballfulton - 08 January 2015 07:04 PM

Read p.228 about setting MIDI In/Out, set this to MIDI if you are using MIDI cables between the MPC and the XF.

Read p. 232 in the Reference Manual about Quick Setup. Where the text reads “computer” thats your MPC. Those four setups will do what you need.

Yes I followed these

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 20, 2015 @ 07:09 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
MrMotif - 09 January 2015 09:53 AM

OK, what exactly do you mean by ‘settings’? Still not clear as to whether you are simply using Motif as a sound generating device or actually ‘creating’ material on it using Pattern or Song sequences.

To be honest there’s not a set of ‘standard’ settings ‘that work’. The Motif simply does work, using a 1001 different settings that you can manage and that are dependent upon what you’re doing.

So, if you are recording directly on the Motif there’s basically nothing you need to do except build up your recording and play it back!

If you are connecting the Motif-created recordings (in Pattern or Song mode) to another device then you have the choice of who you want to be in charge (i.e. running the MIDI clock - internal or external), plus you can be selective about whether tracks in a Pattern or Song only use internal sounds, only use external sounds, or both. You can send parts out on assignable audio outputs, or even digitally if you have a FireWire card installed.

Again, still not sure where your recording(s) has been initiated, nor, truthfully, what you are trying to set up. As you have clearly discovered, though, in spite of us still living in the ‘play nicely’ world of MIDI, connecting two pieces of hardware can be a very frustrating exercise. Bluntly, manufacturers have no interest in and realistically very little control over your being able to do this.  Interfacing with DAWs is tough enough but here there is a relatively limited pool of major players and platforms. Connecting hardware, though, is very much trial and error.

Your ‘problem’ may simply be one of MIDI clock and related issues, or it might be more complex in terms of MIDI messages being sent, received and interpreted in ways you are not aware of and did not expect, in which case you may need to ‘look’ at some of the data and see what’s going on.

Finally, if you can simplify your rig - even if it may mean abandoning some of the niceties you’re hoping to achieve by linkage - I suspect your frustration level and coffee intake will be reduced while your enjoyment of playing music will be increased; both of them dramatically and commensurately.

Finally, just on a point of Motifator forum style, a post entitled “PLEASE PLEASE!!! HELP HELP! etc is less likely to get noticed by someone who can help a particular problem than a post entitled “Motif and Akai Renaissance issues” or even “Recording help needed” etc etc. Imagine a 911 call where someone simply screams “I need help”. The more specific you can be the better and faster help you’re going to get.

MrMotif, Thank you so much for responding. I haven’t replied yet due to waiting on replacement mpc unit. New unit is setup and I’m experiencing the same issues.

Here is what I am doing/trying to accomplish.

16 tracks on Akai sequencer
- Track 1 MPC Drum sequence.
- Track 2 Midi 1 Channel 2
- Track 3 Midi 1 Channel 3
etc through
- Track 16 Midi A Channel 16
-- As needed -> MIDI OUT 2, 3 and 4, out to various Sound Modules: Integra, Triton, Emu, Ensoniq, etc.

Motif connected IN/OUT to MPC - IN Port A Out Port 1
- Using pattern mode on Motif (I.E: Pattern 005 goes with sequence 005 on MPC)
- Goal is to use Motif as MIDI controller
- Record MIDI data for tracks 2-16 on MPC using Motif as controller
-- ALSO Using Motif as Sound Module

Some issues have been resolved since this post went up so i’m going to list new and remaining issues without looking at my original post.

Issue 1: While connected with midi Motif to MPC, when attempting to play notes, random notes play and sustain (continue to play without pressing keys). Will only stop playing notes when hitting Stop repeatedly on MPC. However when motif is connected to a midi sport with the same MIDI cords there is no issue. But in this instance The MPC is looking for Midi via its USB connection and MIDI OUT ports 1-4 do not send a signal at all to other devices. So it seems the MPC is one or the other, physical midi ports or USB can’t use both.

NOTE* I purchased the FW card for the sole purpose of 16 outs. I just received that today as well, have yet to install it.

Issue 2: Storing quick set up 3, midi doesn’t work at all. And when rebooting it automatically defaults to Quick Setup 1. It does not send data nor play data coming in. Prior to today quick set up 3 seemed to be the working set up. In Midi filter I have Note, Pitch Bend, Channel After Touch, Poly After Touch in the OUT column checked. Everything else is unchecked. Under Utility>control>Midi IN/OUT, MIDI is selected. Local control is off. clock out is off, sequencer control is off.

Issue 3: Auto loading save files is no longer working I get a pop up it could not find file yet when I manually go to file and load it it works BUT all the settings seem to be random. Like quick setup defaulting to 1 not 3 as the file its saved to.

Now heres a curveball, with the prior MPC I was experiencing the note sustain issue with both Motif and Triton. Now Its only doing it with the Motif and not the Triton. Akai swears it was the hardware but now I’m thinking its the Motif sending something it shouldn’t to the MPC.

I dont know of any simpler way to explain myself regarding the settings files:

When you go to FILE, USB flash drive pops up. On this I want to have 2 “ALL” files. Label 1 MOTIF and 1 MPC. All songs I create say on the road using only MOTIF and its internal sequencer to be saved to the MOTIF FILE including all the settings required to use internal sequencer. On the MPC FILE all of my songs I create using the MOTIF with the MPC including the appropriate settings to do so in this file. So when I go to my studio I connect to MPC, load MPC file, and I’m ready to create, track etc. and All the songs Ive created in conjunction with the MPC load up as well.

The help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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Posted on: January 20, 2015 @ 08:19 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular

IF not MrMotif, anyone else have any suggestions???

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Posted on: January 20, 2015 @ 08:53 PM
Way_ne
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Total Posts:  1291
Joined  01-26-2003
status: Guru

Less coffee, for a start.

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Posted on: January 21, 2015 @ 06:28 AM
meatballfulton
Avatar
Total Posts:  3019
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

dam007,

Part of the reason we are unable to solve all your issues is the information you provide is vague. If we do not know exactly what you are doing, we really can’t help.

As an example:

While connected with midi Motif to MPC, when attempting to play notes, random notes play and sustain (continue to play without pressing keys). Will only stop playing notes when hitting Stop repeatedly on MPC. However when motif is connected to a midi sport with the same MIDI cords there is no issue. But in this instance The MPC is looking for Midi via its USB connection and MIDI OUT ports 1-4 do not send a signal at all to other devices. So it seems the MPC is one or the other, physical midi ports or USB can’t use both.

“random notes play and sustain”

Notes sustaining on what, the Motif or something else? Is the Motif set with Local ON or OFF?

“However when motif is connected to a midi sport with the same MIDI cords there is no issue.”

When you use your MIDI Sport what is it connected to...a DAW in your computer or something else? Again is the Motif set with Local ON or OFF?

“But in this instance The MPC is looking for Midi via its USB connection and MIDI OUT ports 1-4 do not send a signal at all to other devices.” You have the Motif connected to the MPC by MIDI cables but the MPC ignores the MIDI ports when connected to the computer by USB. Well, if that’s the case why do you have the Motif connected to the MPC?

I literally have no idea what you are doing from what you wrote in that quote. So I can’t give you any advice other than you need to step back to square one whatever that might be.

Good luck.

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Posted on: January 21, 2015 @ 09:09 AM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
meatballfulton - 21 January 2015 06:28 AM

dam007,

Part of the reason we are unable to solve all your issues is the information you provide is vague. If we do not know exactly what you are doing, we really can’t help.

As an example:

While connected with midi Motif to MPC, when attempting to play notes, random notes play and sustain (continue to play without pressing keys). Will only stop playing notes when hitting Stop repeatedly on MPC. However when motif is connected to a midi sport with the same MIDI cords there is no issue. But in this instance The MPC is looking for Midi via its USB connection and MIDI OUT ports 1-4 do not send a signal at all to other devices. So it seems the MPC is one or the other, physical midi ports or USB can’t use both.

“random notes play and sustain”

Notes sustaining on what, the Motif or something else? Is the Motif set with Local ON or OFF?

“However when motif is connected to a midi sport with the same MIDI cords there is no issue.”

When you use your MIDI Sport what is it connected to...a DAW in your computer or something else? Again is the Motif set with Local ON or OFF?

“But in this instance The MPC is looking for Midi via its USB connection and MIDI OUT ports 1-4 do not send a signal at all to other devices.” You have the Motif connected to the MPC by MIDI cables but the MPC ignores the MIDI ports when connected to the computer by USB. Well, if that’s the case why do you have the Motif connected to the MPC?

I literally have no idea what you are doing from what you wrote in that quote. So I can’t give you any advice other than you need to step back to square one whatever that might be.

Good luck.

As said in first post, local is turned off.

Ok here the MPC connects to the Mac via usb but it also has 2 usb ports on the unit.
When I attempt to connect a midi sport via usb to the USB port on the MpC, problem goes away. But creates an additional problem, it makes the Mpc 4 midi outs USB only. So therefore I cannot control anything else unless they are connected to the midi sport. In the Mpc preferences you when you select midi in for 1 of the 2 physical midi ports, it turns on the 4 out ports. When you select midi sport it turns the 4 out ports to USB.
It doesn’t make any sense but that’s the way their product works. Hence why I want to bypass using any midi interface at all and just use traditional 1983 MIDI.

Midi out from motif to mpc midi in, is where the issue is. Again the issue is while using the Motif as a controller to record its midi data to an external sequencer, the minute you press any key all hell breaks lose. Notes sustain, keys you didn’t press start playing some keys only work if you press them multiple times, latency when pressing keys. Etc etc.

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Posted on: January 21, 2015 @ 01:23 PM
meatballfulton
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Total Posts:  3019
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru

Why you are even looking into connecting a USB/MIDI interface to the MPC I do not understand at all.

OK, you wrote this:

Motif connected IN/OUT to MPC - IN Port A Out Port 1
- Using pattern mode on Motif (I.E: Pattern 005 goes with sequence 005 on MPC)
- Goal is to use Motif as MIDI controller
- Record MIDI data for tracks 2-16 on MPC using Motif as controller
-- ALSO Using Motif as Sound Module

Get out of Pattern mode for now and try Voice mode. See if that works first. Try sequencing one track on the MPC and see if it works as expected.

Let us know if that works, then we can take a look at Pattern mode.

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Posted on: January 21, 2015 @ 03:17 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
meatballfulton - 21 January 2015 01:23 PM

Why you are even looking into connecting a USB/MIDI interface to the MPC I do not understand at all.

OK, you wrote this:

Motif connected IN/OUT to MPC - IN Port A Out Port 1
- Using pattern mode on Motif (I.E: Pattern 005 goes with sequence 005 on MPC)
- Goal is to use Motif as MIDI controller
- Record MIDI data for tracks 2-16 on MPC using Motif as controller
-- ALSO Using Motif as Sound Module

Get out of Pattern mode for now and try Voice mode. See if that works first. Try sequencing one track on the MPC and see if it works as expected.

Let us know if that works, then we can take a look at Pattern mode.

Just put it to voice mode. Nothing No signal is being sent at all.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 21, 2015 @ 04:35 PM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular

Tonight I sent 45 mins on the Phone with Yamaha, they ruled it to be a problem with the MPC software.

Then

A hour and a half on with Akai tech support. They think its a Motif issue or a software glitch that their programmers are now investigating.

Midi is Midi, its been the same since 1983. How anyone can drop the ball like this baffles me. Yet Only Motif users are having issues with the Ren. smh

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Posted on: January 22, 2015 @ 05:50 AM
meatballfulton
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Total Posts:  3019
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru
dam0007 - 21 January 2015 03:17 PM

Just put it to voice mode. Nothing No signal is being sent at all.

“No signal”

WHAT @#$%^&#$%^& SIGNAL???

1. Does the MPC sequencer record the MIDI notes from the Motif keyboard? YES OR NO

2. If you create a sequence on the MPC and then play it back with the Motif in voice mode, does the Motif play the notes? YES OR NO

You really need to learn how to write things that mean something.

Midi is Midi, its been the same since 1983. How anyone can drop the ball like this baffles me. Yet Only Motif users are having issues with the Ren. smh

Who are the other Motif users?

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Posted on: January 22, 2015 @ 06:12 AM
dam0007
Total Posts:  26
Joined  12-21-2014
status: Regular
meatballfulton - 22 January 2015 05:50 AM
dam0007 - 21 January 2015 03:17 PM

Just put it to voice mode. Nothing No signal is being sent at all.

“No signal”

WHAT @#$%^&#$%^& SIGNAL???

1. Does the MPC sequencer record the MIDI notes from the Motif keyboard? YES OR NO

2. If you create a sequence on the MPC and then play it back with the Motif in voice mode, does the Motif play the notes? YES OR NO

You really need to learn how to write things that mean something.

Midi is Midi, its been the same since 1983. How anyone can drop the ball like this baffles me. Yet Only Motif users are having issues with the Ren. smh

Who are the other Motif users?

No midi signal from the Motif to the MPC in voice mode. Signal, data, whatever you want to call it. I then tried playing a sequence with pre recorded midi data that’s in the mpc while motif in voice mode, and no signal was sent to the motif either. It didn’t work in voice mode with my 2000xl either only pattern and song mode.

Tha other users being everyone who owns both a MpC Ren and a Motif.

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